Food Safety Talk 19: Not Here Today

The guys start the podcast with their usual technological discussion. Skype was again the opening topic, as Don found out that the old Skype remains installed when the new Skype is installed (at least on the Mac). Ben then reminisced about his Commodore C64, which eventually was replaced with a 386. Don remember how fast the 386 was compared the 286, though he used mainframe computers with a line editor (probably similar to vi) to type up papers for Joe Regenstein’s food science course.

The discussion became more personal when Don shared his recent endoscopy experience. While most of the hospital staff seemed to know the value of the Checklist Manifesto (which the guys discussed in Episode 12), Don wondered whether he should have written “Not here today!” on one of his body parts. Don was particularly excited to find out that he had a Helicobacter pylori infection (asymptomatic).

It didn’t take Ben long to get over his jealousy and find out lots about H. pylori, thanks to Wikipedia (which is never wrong). Don’s feeling of being special quickly dissipated when Ben told him that H. pylori infection is the most widespread infection worldwide.

Ben then had some follow up on barfblog on a Salmonella Paratyphi B outbreak linked to tempeh which the guys discussed in Episode 18 – Bunkum. The update was that pathogen was found in the starter culture the outbreak is not a result of a sanitary deficiency of the tempeh producer. However, the guys were wondering why there haven’t been other illness reports given the widespread distribution. This information around this outbreak has helped Ben gather his thoughts about the FSMA for a recent meeting at Oklahoma State University's Food and Ag Product Center organized by Chuck Willoughby and the potential benefits of asking suppliers about their risk reduction measures.

But even the best intentions in product labelling doesn’t indemnify the producer nor guarantee appropriate product use as shown in the recent outbreak associated with tuna scrape which was used for sushi.

Ben’s research into the etymology of 'bunkum' led him to Wiktionary (which is also never wrong) and he managed to really impress Dani (his wife).

Ben also reported on discussions at a recent North Carolina Commission for Public Health meeting in relation to the adoption of the FDA Food Code. The food code would remove the requirement to sell burgers cooked if requested by a customer – provided the risks are explained. This led to a discussion on whether consumer advisory disclosures, including labels, really conveys the risk to the consumer and whether they can make appropriate and informed decisions.

Don recalled the traps with compliance, which led New Jersey to be the laughing stock of the nation in 1992 for not allowing the serving of undercooked eggs, which led Johnny Carson (not Jay Leno) to comment “there's something wrong with a state in which you can buy an Uzi but there's a 10-day waiting period to get a Caesar salad."

Don also wondered what compliance with handwashing requirements would really look like?

The guys wondered whether there are other companies who’s food safety culture is ingrained enough to steer high risk customers to less risky products. Ben asked whether Subway would ever advise pregnant woman against consuming cold sandwiches containing deli meats because of Listeria risks.

Don then had a long rant about cross-contamination and viruses, after reading this Microbe Magazine article, which led him to this JAM article. It highlights the importance of microbial transmission between surfaces, which Don’s grad student Dane is also currently writing up.

Don and Ben discussed this Journal of Infectious Disease article, from which Don concluded that food storage containers should not been stored in the bathroom. Ben’s correspondence with one of the author’s, 'epi-god' Bill Keene, confirmed that the Norovirus outbreak had nothing to with the fact that the bag was reusable.

Don used dick fingers when he referred to work on the risks associated with reusable bags. The guys concluded with a discussion of the term “infectious dose” which makes Don’s want to reach through the computer screen and slap them, preferably with the median infectious dose (LD50).

Ben found Canadian band Cuff the Duke on Spotify, which Don though sounded like a dirty sex-thing, but is actually a hockey term for pulling the goalie.

Food Safety Talk 19: Not Here Today

Food Safety Talk 18: Bunkum!

The show opens once again with the requisite Skype complaints. Don tries to impress Ben with his use of the 5by5 soundboard, but to no avail. The guys briefly discuss Ben's son Jack, Don's student (and fan of the show), Dane, and other fan of the show Michelle, who was inspired by e16 to spend the day listening to "The Hip".

As usual, the guys eventually get around to discussing food safety and the current Tempeh-borne outbreak, which is occurring in Bunkum County, North Carolina. Where Alice B. Toklas might have once lived, or not. The Tempeh in question was produced by a company called Smiling Hara, where according to Wikipedia, Hara might be a Japanese term referring for the stomach, feces in Maltese language, or pigsty in Latin. Ben has actually visited Buncombe County, because it is well established, he is a hippie. Surprisingly, or maybe not, the food safety risks of tempeh have actually been documented in the scientific literature, including the observation that "Active mycelial growth on the beans resulted in a sharp increase in pH. This was always accompanied by a sharp increase in the growth rate of the test organisms".

After the discussion of tempeh food safety, the guys move on to a discussion of the safety of cut leafy greens and proper refrigeration temperature and the FDA model food code. Of course, this leads to a mention of the Conference for Food Protection, where issues like time out of temperature control get debated. Ben points out that the Federal regulations for food processors require refrigeration at 45 F, while the more up to date Food Code says 41 F is the right temperature. He has this on good authority, as he's checked this with Kevin Smith... er... anyway, the Kevin Smith from the FDA Office of Food Safety. Ben's interest in cut leafy greens lead his student to do research, which may have lead her neighbors to think she was cooking meth in her car. In the interest of public safety, we are passing on Randy Phebus's sage advice: if you see a cooler by the side of the road, don't open it.

The guys discuss a bunch of stuff in the after-dark, and discover the amazing fact that Rochester, NY is equidistant from their respective home towns.

Food Safety Talk 18: Bunkum!

Food Safety Talk 17: Blood, Sugar, Nakaochi Scrape, Magik

Don and Ben talk about bands that usually don't suck (but sometimes do), alternatives to conferences where the audience is talked at (although that's not always bad) and salmonellosis linked to meat scraped from the backbone of tuna.

• Ben's favorite Red Hot Chili Peppers album, which he was listening to prior to the recording.
• One of Don's new listens (and a guy from Canada, whom, of course, Ben knows - because everyone in Canada knows each other): Jim Dalrymple/The Loop.
• One of those bands who cranks out good radio singles but their albums have been disappointing to the dudes.
• Sometimes cheeses from Quebec have food safety issues.
• Ben's drug of choice, the venti triple latte.
• Food safety summit, where Ben was prior to the podcast.
• Conference for Food Protection, Where Don was prior to the podcast.
• David Tharp, the Tupac of food safety.
• Ben knows a roundtable when he sees one, just like pornography.
• A talk Ben gave via Skype.
• What people who view or give webinars might look like.
• CDC report of Salmonella in sushi product-linked outbreak investigation.
• Moon Marine USA Corp's FDA recall.
• Nakaochi scrape, what some have called tuna's pink slime.
• Ben's food safety infosheet on the sushi outbreak (that Don so graciously reviewed).
• Sushi eaters rejoice, slime from india (from barfblog).
• An outbreak where a tiny bit of contamination became a big issue, spreading from a central location.
• Mike Doyle who doesn't eat bagged lettuce, and his big purple teal gloves.
• Dried spices, at some point all have been on a mule somewhere.
• Bumblefish Sushi sent a letter to Rutgers that the guys thought was good.
• Where Ben and Don said that supplier names eventually come out (here or here).
• Where fixing the "when and how to go public" goes.
• What the food supply chain might look like.
• In the post-show, Don and Ben figure out how to create a social media food safety conference. They decided they would get one of these (or these).
• 4 day throwaway from UNL.
  
  
  

Food Safety Talk 17: Blood, Sugar, Nakaochi Scrape, Magik

Food Safety Talk 16: Gun with a Bang Flag

The show starts with a discussion of Canadian culture, including hockey, the Canadian national anthem, and the Tragically Hip, and then in quick succession, BLN, Rush, Neil Young, The Band, and Tim Horton's Coffee. 

No self-respecting podcast would neglect the preliminary requisite discussion of Skype, the resolutionary New iPad, favorite apps like Omnifocus, or favorite games like W.E.L.D.E.R.

A brief discussion of the merits of Multitasking during teleconferences occurs before the guys briefly revisit pink slime and then launch into their main topic on home canning food safety.

Home canning of green beans always should use a USDA approved recipe. And remember: there are no safe options for canning Vegetables in a boiling water canner! Why do some people not get sick when foods are improperly canned? Well, it comes down to probability, and like Barbie sort of said "probability is hard." And when your number comes up, it's not just a sign that says bang, in fact it's quite serious.

While it is true that heat does denature bot toxin, that is probably not a good food safety management strategy. A good quality management strategy for home or commercially canned foods is first in, first out stock rotation. The bottom line? When in comes to C. botulinum, don't play too close to the edge.

From the discussion of canned foods, Don moves on to discuss his recent trip to Thailand, funded in part, thanks in part to Mark Robson. He goes on to comment on the safety of street food, and his ideas for research. Because after all, how will he know what he thinks until he sees what he says? The safety of street food is a popular topic in the Journal of Food Protection, although our pal Linda Harris has yet to publish on the safety of roasted chestnuts.

The guys briefly remark that they are glad the FSPCA website is finally live. Too bad they didn't use squarespace.

When Ben mention's his opus, Don first think's he is talking about a penguin. Ben clarifies that he isn't talking about a musical work, or other excellent works by Richard Dreyfuss, but instead is talking about the Ottawa Lunch Lady and some of their recent problems.

In the after dark, Don tells Ben again how much he liked Ben's comment on too many cooks in the kitchen.

Gun With a Bang Flag

Food Safety Talk 15: Soylent Pink

Don and Ben chat about meeting up in Georgia (and the awkwardness of chatting in person) and the ongoing pink slime/lean, finely textured beef saga.

• Don upgraded his phone's operating system to this, and the guys couldn't text each other.
• 'Text ya later, dude.'
• The official Food Safety Talk house band.
• Florida Association for Food Protection, where there are good banjo players.
• Tights that Ben wears every once in a while.
• Is it herbs or Herb's?
• What Dr. Micro and pathogen boy might look like.
• Five Star Day Cafe in Athens, GA where Don and Ben had dinner with Wendy Wade White.
• Larry Beuchat, who the Larry Beuchat young researcher award is so aptly named for.
• Larry's papers are too numerous to count. But since we mentioned Scott Burnett of Malt-o-Meal fame, here's a paper Larry and Scott co-authored.
• What is a log reduction?
• Carl Custer's post on FoodSafe summarizing his take on pink slime/LFTB.
• ABC News story that quotes Carl Custer.
• The American Meat Institute's comments on LFTB.
• Impact of pH Enhancement on Populations of Salmonella, Listeria monocytogenes, and Escherichia coli O157:H7 in Boneless Lean Beef Trimmings (Niebuhr and Dickson paper)
• Story with McDonald’s statement that Don reads as Ben rambles.
• USDA’s school choice statement.
• 2009 NY Times article on pink slime.
• Iowa State paper describing protein content of LFTB.
• Ben's food myths and memes post summarizing pink slime (myths and memes is where he posts stuff for North Carolina extension agents) post.
• BPI's YouTube channel.
• Katafiasz and Bartlett Paper that shows raw milk drinkers don't trust public health folks.
• Jamie Oliver's ammonia in beef video.
• Things that Ben used to write on genetic engineering risks (1, 2).
• Announcement that the National Academies of Science was to review ground beef purchasing for school meals.
• Blade tenderized needle tenderized meat outbreaks (1,2).
• John Luchansky's lab's work on blade tenderized meat.
• What Carl really wanted to name pink slime after.

Soylent Pink

Food Safety Talk 14: Laws, sausages and scientific papers

In this episode the dudes (now known in some small circles as Dr. Micro and Pathogen Boy) take on new-ish legislation on food safety preventative controls, the virtues of evening podcast recording and chia pets.

The show opens with a gong noise. Ben thinks it might be Don's computer warning him of the impending iPad 3. Don learns later that it was his Rutgers webmail running in the background.

It's an evening recording, so the guys are enjoying cold beverages. Ben is drinking Bud Light for some unknown reason, while Don is drinking Mike Solberg's Seagram's Seven, mixed with soda stream seltzer, the seltzer of choice for discerning podcasters everywhere). The guys do point out, however that they don't drink in the office, unlike the Oxford Professors on Inspector Morse, although they both agree that Roger Cook's set up in New Zealand sounds pretty sweet.

This weeks follow up includes Ben's visit to the Dubai Food Safety Conference, more on toilet paper, and Ben's selection of his favorite episode for Merlin. The guys go retro with a discussion of chia pets and sea monkeys, before Ben mentions that their favorite Internet celebrity may be moonlighting as a food safety writer. This barf blog post prompted Batz to make a ghost busters reference on twitter, which prompted a visit from the stay puft marshmallow man. Don mentions his own connection with another Internet celebrity this week, before rounding out the followup with a discussion of his colonoscopy doctor, who really does look like Dougie Howser.

Don wants to talk about FSMA, in preparation for his upcoming talk at the University of Georgia Center for Food Safety, specifically Section 103 on Preventive Controls, in part so he can plug the Food Safety Preventive Controls Alliance. The Preventive Controls seem to look a lot like HACCP, and Don goes on to opine on:

• Otto von Bismarck
• Seafood HACCP
• Fish and fisheries products hazards guide, which includes the Eelpout.
• Seafood HACCP guru, Steve Otwell
• The merits of Third-party auditors
• The Pareto principle
• The formula for Risk
• and Lynn Knipe's outstanding meat HACCP document on scientific documentation, MS Word format
• Ben finally gets a word in, and misremembers the author (from Steve Knabel's group) but brings up Cathy Cutter's colleagues outstanding documents on Lebanon bologna which can be found here, here, here and here
• Don concludes with a mention of the best thing to come out of FSPCA so far, the logo

Ben wraps up the episode with a discussion of some training that he has planned for his agents where he will lead an in-depth discussion on a variety of scientific publications. Don suggests the recent paper on raw milk epidemiology by the CDC, and Ben notes that he might also include a paper by Brian Nummer, Don and others (but not Linda Harris), and the New England Journal of Medicine article on Salmonella Saintpaul.

Laws, Sausages and Scientific Papers

Food Safety Talk 13: I Don't Want Other People's Poo in My Poo Hole

In this episode Don and Ben talk Valentine's day happenings; chocolate and then being famous on the Internet. The guys eventually get to food safety stuff and chat about raw milk risks, inactivation of Salmonella in peanut butter and the risk of someones dirty hands ending up on their toilet paper.

• W00t deal, a deal a day where Don and Kristin scored some Valentine's day salted caramels.
• Don gets his greeting cards at CVS, Ben wonders if they stock these.
• The hip Raleigh restaurant that Ben and Dani went to a couple of years ago for Valentine's Day.
• Wine and Design - Dani's gift was to go out without Ben with a bunch of her friends. And then they ate Subway.
• American Frozen Food Institute annual meeting, where Don went to hang out after Valentine's Day.
• Ben tries to connect chocolate and Valentine's Day and food safety - here is an example.
• What someone who is surprised might look like.
• I love charts tumblr.
• Don's tumblr.
• The iPhone 5 that cures the flu and makes broccoli taste like chocolate, and made Don famous on the inter webs.
• Don seeks clarification on whether the required metric is blogs or blog posts? (or a blogg?) for his annual survey of program methods
• Batz's Double Face Palm post.
• What a denominator might look like.
• FDA's cold-smoked fish hazards. There's contamination, not many people eat it, total risk is probably pretty low.
• There was an outbreak of Salmonella linked to this company in 2009. Tragically these things happened and then this.
• Some of the work on the inactivation of Salmonella in peanut butter.
• What 1.5 million servings of chocolate might look like.
• Don talks about Salmonella in dry spots (not Arizona, but products like hydrolyzed vegetable protein and almonds).
• Walmart quietly dropped sprouts from sale.
• FDA's sprout guidance document highlights the importance of testing spent irrigation water.
• Bob Sanderson, whom Don would eat sprouts from if he liked them.
• Galen Weston who thinks farmers markets might kill people soon.
• Ben wants to buy food from vendors who think they might kill someone.
• What Ben is really talking about -- food safety culture.
• One guy who doesn't worry about making waves or causing a stir.
• Don's famous internet friend. Not this one.
• Merlin put Don on the spot on what his favorite Food Safety Talk episode is. Don picks this one. Ben likes this one.
• Quit touching my toilet paper.
• How Ben would mitigate this risk.
• What Don is worried about at farmers markets.

I Don't Want Other People's Poo in My Poo Hole

Food Safety Talk 12: Dueling Experts

Ben has McDonalds for lunch, which starts the guys talking about the golden arches, food safety and comfort foods, with brief digressions into banjo music, which is a Deliverance reference. Apparently they have rednecks in Canada too.

From there the guys talk about Don's Extension Stakeholder Review and the trials and tribulations of a life in academe. Food Safety Talk is not a productivity podcast, despite the fact that the guys talked about Getting Things Done by David Allen, and a survey on how people fall off the GTD wagon. Don also mentions The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande that he is listening to as an Audible audiobook.

Ben brings the discussion back to food safety by talking about his food safety infosheets and building a Food safety culture as per Yiannis, Griffiths, Ben and Doug). Ben also brings up Malcolm Gladwell. Don holds his tongue and doesn't mention what others have said about Mr. Gladwell.

Don starts the food safety talk in earnest with a mention of the outbreak linked to Your Family Cow, with an aside to Abbott and Costello. Don also mentions his talk on sampling raw milk for pathogens and the early history of HACCP. This evolves into a discussion of sampling and the uncertainties of epidemiology, and the dangers of possibly getting it wrong.

Ben notes that he thinks that Edwin Shank from Your Family Cow guy, does get some aspects of his message correct, noting that Mr. Shank said:

... we are concerned. We do not take even a suspicion of food-borne illness lightly. We took action accordingly.

After a quick digression on Ben's microbe ornaments (not actual size), Ben moves the discussion to labeling, including meat and the USDA cook to a safe internal temperature label, unpasteurized juice labeling, Pillsbury's polite message, and more terse advice from Betty Crocker, regarding Bisquick. Don chimes in with concerns about the profusion of food allergy labels.

The guys get sidetracked into a discussion of dough and flour related food safety including the E. coli outbreak linked to refrigerated cookie dough, the Aunt Jemima Salmonella in flour mix recall, and the Listeria in Eggo frozen waffle recall.

Ben brings things back to consumers and labeling by mentioning research by Kansas State scientists on consumer preparation of frozen, uncooked, breaded chicken products. Not to be outdone, Don mentions research from his lab on the risk of salmonellosis associated with consumption of raw, frozen chicken products cooked in low-wattage microwave ovens.

Food labels seem to be getting longer and more complicated, but even with increased complexity, managing risks of things like hydrolyzed vegetable protein recall may be problematic give the different ways people eat Ramen Noodles, for example. Clearly the safety of microwaved foods is complicated, as microwaved containers also pose non-microbial risks, like tipping over and burning you.

Finally, no discussion of labeling snafu's would be complete without a mention of those kosher "broiled" chicken livers, which made a bunch or people sick, including one reported case in Minnesota. Why do more people seem to get in Minnesota? Here is a hint, it has a lot to do with the Minnesota's commitment to public health including efforts like Team Diarrhea.

Ben concludes by noting that he is a fan of Canadian Marshall McLuhan, even if he gets the quote wrong.

The guys wrap up with a discussion of ideas that they will put in the parking lot for future shows:

• Top Ten Food Microbiologist pet peeves.
• Disgust and it's relationship to food safety.
• Talking to Roy Costa about lack of chlorine in melon wash water.
• The #NASH74 norovirus outbreak.
• Batz's new restaurant, where employees wear lots of flair, perhaps coming soon to Kickstarter near you.

Dueling Experts

Food Safety Talk 11: Somewhere on I-95

Episode 11 opens with a This is Spinal Tap reference, and a call back to an earlier episode. As usual, the guys seem to have technical difficulties, starting with Ben's need for a noise gate. It has taken a while to get this episode posted due to repeated issues relating to a Skype call with more than two people. Fortunately, Ben was able to fix it in post. Next time in might be easier to meet in person somewhere along I-95. Below are links to some of the stuff talked about on the podcast:

• Our guest Michelle Danyluk is from the University of Florida. Michelle has studied at the University of Alberta. That's in Canada.
• Michelle and Don also share a University of Georgia connection, where they both earned MS degrees.
• Michelle earned her Ph.D. in Linda Harris' lab and UC Davis.
• Ben once again shows his awesome knowledge of pop culture with WKRP in Cincinnati reference.
• For the record, Don has used some kinds of floppy disks, but not others.
• Ben's goto source for tee shirts.
• As a resident of North Carolina, Ben knows the true meaning of "Bless her heart".
• Michelle has volunteered as a judge for the Florida state science fair.
• Ben, Michelle and Don have all volunteered their time with this years First Lego League - FLL competition, which is food safety themed, with varying degrees of annoyance/success.
• Some of the more interesting FLL projects featured Glogerm and Predator Pee.
• Eventually the discussion turns to Food Safety, and Don mentions a post from Barfblog, where Doug asks the rhetorical question "Is government inspection better at ensuring safe produce?" which inspired Don to answer. Doug's post also inspired a longer and more thoughtful response from Mike Batz.
• For more on the Melon oubreak, see FDA's inspection results and their Draft Guidance, as well as the Barf Blog post concerning Roy Costa on the lack of a requirement for wash water chlorination.
• As might be expected with Don and Michelle on the call, the discussion soon turns to the Almond Board of California, who are more awesome than their Flash website implies. No discussion of almonds would be complete without a mention of the Almond Queen, LJH, the Federal Register rule which mentions our famous risk assessment, or the TERP
• The discussion turns to the relationship between large and small companies, the Vichyssoise and C. bot outbreak, and the Low Acid Canned Foods regulations and Better Process Control Schools it spawned, and well as the more modern Tester Amendment, which exempts small, local food processors and producers from the new Food Safety Modernization Act.
• Before the call ends, Don's plugs his Leafy Green Risk Webinar.
• We have yet to talk about Food safety audits, but when we do, these great USA Today competing editorials on the value of food safety audits, linked from Barfblog will be required reading.

Somewhere On I-95

Food Safety Talk 10: Fake clams, Sam and Ella

Episode 10 starts out with a discussion of Christmas gifts for the food safety nerd. Neither Don or Ben actually recieved any. The guys move on to discussion temperature abuse (surprise), data loggers and the nuances of infectious dose. Raw milk and home food preservation also make an appearance. Creative Don ends things with a food safety haiku.

• What Ben did not get for Christmas.
• Ben has a tumblr, AKA pinterest for nerds. So does Don.
• Thermometer of champions. Comark PDT300.
• Bill Keene, Oregon's top food-borne illness detective.
• Don's extra nerdy gift "from me, to me; because I always know what I want" - the iGrill.
• Thermometers (here, here) that Don is using in a project to assess transport temperatures/variations.
• Not sure why, but Don says he has to do this to get the data.
• Someone who probably needs to use a temperature control monitor.
• What Don saw outside a restaurant in San Diego.
• Three things that are really important in real estate.
• Don used fake clams to model Vibrio growth. What do fake clams look like (1,2)?
• Is this the edge that Don was talking about? Because, ironically, Ben is "always on the Edge" as this is his favorite radio station (or internet radio station).
• Always start blog posts with a number.
• Mike Batz, our diehard listener who Don Schaffner may or may not be posting as, and who co-authored this, bought himself a bunch of date stickers for Christmas. He's clairvoyant.
• Cronobacter sakazakii, which used to be known as Enterobacter sakazakii  (pronounced sakazak-ee - or coronobacter sakazaki-eye, we're not sure which one).
• Wal-mart recalls Enfamil formula.
• FDA visits the plant and finds nothing; CDC epidemiologists also says the outbreak is not related to Enfimil.
• Lettuce recalled because of Salmonella in an adjacent field.
• Salmonella?
• Raw milk at Rutgers University.
• Where you can buy space booties.
• How Good is Your Eyesight: Bill Marler's description of infectious dose. Don says it's one - it's the mean infectious dose that really matters though.
• What Don looks like when he goes all mathy.
• What Ben looks like.
• What 1000 servings of eggs might look like.
• Pathogenesis of Shigella dysenteriae 1 (Shiga) Dysentery - prisoners used for dose-response models.
• Dose-Response Model for Listeria monocytogenes-Induced Stillbirths in Nonhuman Primates.
• Christine Moe, Emory University - who does dose-response work in norovirus.
• Tested recipe for home canned apple sauce.
• Should home canned foods be boiled for 10 min before consumption? USDA still says yes, but in their canning guide, only for low-acid.
• Safety of herbed oils paper.
• Wash your hands, dumbass.

Fake Clams, Sam and Ella

Food Safety Talk 9: Two monitors and a microphone

Episode 9 of Food Safety Talk opens with an extended wide-ranging session of follow-up, touching on cookies, beef jerky, and the SRA annual meeting. Finally the guys get around to discussing a recent change to the NYC heath code and the timing of public announcements about foods implicated in food poisoning outbreaks.

• The show opens with a discussion of audio levels, which is apparently very important in podcasting.
• It turns out that PIBCAK, specifically Don's keyboard and chair.
• The first pop culture reference is Beck's classic Two turntables and a microphone.
• And while we do get listener mail, it's not all positive.
• This first part of the podcast is devoted to what's known in the business as "FU", or followup, as commonly practiced by one of the best in the business, although he's apparently not infallible... so...
• The first item of FU relates to baking cookies, where starch gelatinization can be determined with a tip-sensitive thermometer.
• A least one the these baking companies is looking to validate their baking protocols. Which is important because cookies can make you sick. So, it's best to make sure you have validated their safety with a challenge study.
• The discussion of cookies and baking moves on to a discussion of heating and low water foods like meat jerky, and Don and Ben's podcasting hero, who is according to Ben, a jerky fiend. Which is not surprising since it's one of the things you can eat on the Paleo diet.
• From there, the guys get into a brief discussion of the complexity of the US Food safety regulations.
• Don's brings Ben up to speed on the SRA annual meeting, where Don missed a great talk by Eric Evers of RIVM who spoke about petting zoo risk assessment. Which reminds Ben of a guy that he and Doug call Gonzo, although he's neither a muppet nor a gun-toting journalist.
• While at SRA, Don watched the last episode of The Wire, which featured a brief food safety reference.
• Finally, the guys get down to business with a discussion of new food safety rules in New York City which are related to hairnets and to real issues like time out of temperature control.
• Don briefly recalls some clever teaching experiments by Carl Batt which demonstrate which foods might need temperature control (like beer) but not pizza made by your cousin Vinnie's pizzeria.
• Ben mentions Brae Surgeoner's work on how consumers would like to be communicated to regarding take out food safety, and his own experiences at Maggiano's.
• The next topic up is about some potentially crossed signals between Missouri public health officials and the CDC. Clearly making public statements implicating a particular food are tricky, and Paul Mead ought to know, as he wrote the book, or at least the definitive article. At least it was until the more recent articles by Scallon, here and here.
• Don is reminded of more SRA presentations by Hallman and Cuite at SRA and their important work showing that people still eat implicated foods in a recall.
• Its clear that there are communication challenges, just ask Hershey's and the CFIA or some Florida tomato growers
• It's a good thing we have folks like Craig Hedberg and Frank Yiannis, and tools like the Reportable Food Registry for Industry working to improve information flow. Even the USDA/FSIS is considering Public Release of Establishment-Specific Data.
• Ben mentions Parents just don't understand, by Will Smith. This prompts Don to ask about the difference between Hip Hop and Rap. Ben tells him to search the Internet. Don couldn't find anything helpful on the always entertaining I love charts, although he did seem to find this article which does a pretty good job explaining the difference.
• Don talks about what he's been listening to recently, and Ben suggests a lyric-off for a future episode.

Two Monitors and a Microphone

Food Safety Talk 8: They both end in 40, so they rhyme

Don and Ben talk a lot about temperatures, thermometers, answering tough questions and the best place to tell your kids where babies come from. Show me the data/show me your work becomes a theme for the episode.

• Ben's new microphone items (1,2 and 3) and headphones (via Dan Benjamin)
• NACMCF Consumer Guidelines for the Safe Cooking of Poultry Products panel report that Don was part of.
• USDA/FSIS Appendix A.
• Essentially instantaneous death.
• Log reductions, not yule log reductions.
• Absolute zero.
• What a million servings of ground beef might look like (sort of).
• Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says that the answer is 42. Ben knows the reference, has not read the book or seen the movie.
• D-values and Z-values (pronounced "zed" values in Canada).
• Choosing the right thermometer from guru Pete Snyder.
• 2009 FDA model food code and the Conference for Food Protection.
• Show me the data/science.
• Show your work.
• Elizabeth Weise, reporter extrordinaire.
• Cooking a turkey from a frozen state.
• Don's barfblog post on Nathan Myhrvold's book.
• Meet the Pete test.
• I Don't Know, the Sheepdogs.
• NJ car inspections, where you can learn where babies come from.
• Paper detaing Health Canada's review of poultry temperatures.
• Guatemalan raspberries - the Canadian/US experiment. The ultimate case-control study.
• Rocky's egg drink.
• Types of companies (1,2) that worry about transport time and temperature.
• Bacterial lag time, different from a lag putt or a lag bolt.
• It's complicated.
• Answer the question, Claire.
• We don't usually answer tough questions.
• The true Danger Zone, don't let the food safety nerds fool you.
• Ze Frank.
• Now it's serious business.

They Both End in 40, So They Rhyme

Food Safety Talk 7: Dazed and Confused

In Episode 7 of Food Safety Talk, Ben and Don set out to talk about the Mr. Cheese Salmonella outbreak, but range far and wide into discussions about helping Entrepreneurs, the differences between risk assessment and risk management, and the importance of a good theme song.

• Seltzer, The beverage of choice for leading Podcaster's everywhere.
• The NC state fair outbreak has been linked to a livestock display barn.
• Spinach grown near cattle feed yards can become contaminated with microorganisms transfer via the air.
• Mr. Cheese is a man (cheese?) of many faces.
• Ben's son thinks Mr. Cheese looks like this.
• Details on the actual Mr. Cheese outbreak.
• The original Listeria Hispanic style cheese outbreak.
• Don's barfblog post on Freehold illegal restaurants.
• A Map of Utah counties.
• Whole foods want to sell foods made by local entrepreneurs.
• NJ retail food code, now chapter 24. It's twice as good as the old Chapter 12.
• Watermelon jelly botulism, I blame Canada.
• National Center for Home Food Preservation.
• A scientific article on the Hazelnut yogurt botulism outbreak.
• Northeast Center for Food Entrepreneurship at the New York State Food Venture Center.
• Fletcher Arritt, III Assistant Professor, Food Science.
• Snooki is to NJ as Andy Griffith is to NC.
• Mike the Barber, don't be creepy.
• The old Extension model, as described by the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
• The National GAP'S program.
• Episode 3 of FST, where Ben interviews Don's replacement.
• An article on risk analysis.
• The Norman Borlaug institute doing good work.
• Risk Analysis is cool, but it is important to understand the difference between risk assessment and risk management.
• HACCP.
• See Episode 1, for the differences between Ben and Don's personal food safety risk management decisions.
• Lynn Frewer who does research on Risk communication with consumers: Ben is a big fan.
• How to pronounce data.
• Craig Hedberg from U Minnesota: Don is a big fan.
• My biggest fan by Loudon Wainwright III... "yeah there's Bob then there's Neil then there's me", full lyrics here.
• The KISS comic book, printed with the actual KISS blood.
• I wanna rock and roll all night with lyrics, in the hopes that Ben's son will learn to read, and learn more words to the song.
• The Dazed and Confused movie, which Don has to watch for homework. Because very cool podcasts often talk about movies.
• Licensing music from ASCAP for podcasts.
• And for those who listened through the outro music, check out Roderick on the Line.
• Ben's homework is to learn Markdown.

Dazed and Confused

Not a podcast, but a quick thanks...

Just a quick word of thanks on this day before Thangsgiving to Mike Batz.  Not only was Mike a great guest, but he fixed our mp3 metadata on all our old podcasts, and gave each show a cool pop culture reference-related title.

Thanks Mike!

Food Safety Talk 6: Animal Neuroses and Guilty Pleasures

In Episode 6 Don and Ben talk petting zoos and risk management strategies. Ben rants about his neuroses with animal contact while Don analyzes these fears (for free).

• An outbreak of E. coli O157 linked to the North Carolina State Fair.  
• What a well known quickserve restaurant might look like (here, here or here).
• A list of petting zoo-related outbreaks.
• The North Carolina State Fair.
• Some other pathogenic E. colis.
• 2004 North Carolina State Fair petting zoo-linked E. coli O157 outbreak (108 cases).
• What a hippie Ben looks like, and a picture of his Birkenstocks and water tub.
• Why Ben is worried about railings, sawdust, etc at petting zoos.
• Howling Cow; NC State Ice Cream.
• Fireman Sam, who Ben's son often emulates.
• Valuing a safe petting zoo.
• Freehold Borough, in the garden state, where Don lives and can't raise chickens in his backyard.
• Deli meat risks and pregnancy another risk benefit trade-off.
• Potential for microbial contamination of spinach through feedyard air/dust growing in close proximity to cattle feedyard operations.
• Benefits that raw milk drinkers see that can outweigh risks for some individuals.
• Ben on TV; those are not his jazzy hands at the bottom.
• A way of getting things off of Ben's TV.
• Handwashing encouragement signs at the North Carolina State Fair (October 16, 2011).
• Inspecting food vendors at the North Carolina State Fair.
• North Carolina petting zoo sanitation and communication regulations.
• NC State Expert Offers Insight On E. coli Outbreak.
• Risk of Salmonella from reptiles.
• Quit touching my toilet paper.
• Journal of Irreproducible Results.
• Ah, graduate students.
• Foodborne illnesses aren't just numbers.
• The satire of bridging masters.
• What professors looked like before iPods.
• The Pearl Jam documentary that Ben is obsessed with.
• The Bridge School benefit concert.
• Don's guilty pleasure.
• Why Don and Kristin may never leave the couch again.
• The Instapaper sage Marco, who has blogged about TV watching. 
• Merlin likes sports.

Animal Neuroses and Guilty Pleasures

Food Safety Talk 5: A Medley of Fleetwood Mac

Don and Ben are back in the same time zone and talk a lot about cantaloupe. The episode starts off with a bit of nerdy discussion about Apple products and upgrading to iOS 5. But then the guys talk about food safety, outbreak investigations, social media and messaging. The podcast is available here.

• The muse who Don spoke with.
• Food safety's Weird Al, Carl Winter.
• The band that Ben suggests stringing 6 seconds of multiple songs together for the bump.
• FDA's report of finding one of the three outbreak strains at Jensen Farms.
• Like Bryan Adams, Celine Dion and Alan Thicke - Canada has brought the world notable things, including Listeria in fresh produce.
• Our good friend, who has said that sheep are used as weed control between crops.
• What hydrocooler might look like.
• Listeria dose/response in RTE foods.
• What a cantaloupe encrusted with animal feces might look like.
• The Finnish butter outbreak.
• High fat in chocolate and peanut products has a protective effect on Salmonella.
• Don and Michelle's pathogenic E. coli in leafy greens modelling work.
• A YouTube video of a cantaloupe packing line with the worlds greatest music
• Importance of having chlorine in your wash water when processing leafy greens.
• Absolutely, positively, Listeria-free cantaloupes on sale in Carborro, NC.
• Zach Braff's shining moment, Garden State.
• Edmonton's (which is on the outskirts of Canada) greatest time.
• Don's Skype interview where he was referred to as Canadian.
• Is a consumer really just a consumer? 
• Einstein's advice:  "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler"
• Don on NPR.
• Food safety's small group (IAFP's membership is around 3000).
• Our at least one listener.
• Nerdy app that Ben likes and Don doesn't.
• The competition that swamped Ben and Don with food safety questions from keen high school kids.
• A really nerdy thing Ben participated in high school, and loved it.
• The movie that Ben loved and felt that was the best social marketing for handwashing (that bordered on propaganda).
• The agency that Ben feels does the best job of telling folks what they do.
• Our friend who thinks Ben works at CDC.

A Medley of Fleetwood Mac

Food Safety Talk 4: Ode To A Pittsburgh (Michael Batz, Guest)

Episode 4 of Food Safety Talk. In which Ben and Don can't mesh their schedules, so Don interviews Michael Batz, who turns out to be just as big a food safety nerd as Don or Ben. Like certain other podcasters, Batz insisted on using WiFi rather than a wired Ethernet connection as suggested by the experts. Although he promised to "sit real close" to his wireless base station, the quality of the call degrades toward the end. Don was prepared to drop in a few choice sound effects in case Mike dropped out completely, but in the end everything Mike had to say made it into the recording.

• University of Florida Emerging Pathogens Institute where Mike Batz works.
• Mike used to live in Baltimore, where The Wire was set and shot.
• Mike has degrees in Electrical and Computer Engineering, and Engineering and Public Policy from Carnegie Mellon University, which is in Pittsburg. Loudon Wainwright III has a song about Pittsburg. The movie The Wonderboys is also set in Pittsburg. The trailer is available on you tube. For the record it's only professors in the humanities that get to walk around in their bathrobes and smoke dope.
• Mike does a mean cover of I Wanna Be Sedated by the Ramones. Ask him to show you some time.
• The Ranking the Risks report that forms the basis of the interview.
• A direct link to the full report
• CSPI’s top 10 from 2009, upon which that Women’s Day article was based.
• The Journal of Food Protection where much of the high quality food safety research is published.
• “I hate writing, I love having written.” ― Dorothy Parker
• A different podcast about writing, sometimes.
• Bill Marler, who Don seems to mention every time he does a podcast.
• The all important Scallan papers, that updated the previous paper by Mead et al..
• The case-control study on Toxoplasma gondii mentioned in the interview and a full copy of the entire article
• USDA lowers pork cooking temperatures. There is at least one paper on heat inactivation of toxoplasma, which seems to suggest that the USDA's decision has a minimal effect on risk.
• The case-control study on Campylobacter and the full version
• “I know it when I see it”. I though Batz was a kindred spirt. This seals the deal. Plus the Ramones thing.
• Listeria in cantaloupe which briefly comes up at the end of the podcast.
• The podcaster approved headphones that all food safety talk guest are required to purchase.
• The song about Pittsburgh that Batz was going to bring up, but which he couldn’t remember the exact name of.

Food Safety Talk Episode 4

Food Safety Talk 3: Be the Ball (Chris Gunter, Guest)

Episode 3 of food safety talk. Don is galavanting around Europe, at least 5 hrs ahead of Ben. Instead of trying to match up schedules the guys decide to have a couple of guests on. Dr. Chris Gunter, vegetable production specialist at N.C. State joins Ben to talk cantaloupe, GAPs and share anecdotes from producers about their concerns around food safety.

• What Don was emailing Ben about from Europe.
• Chris Gunter on Twitter and the NC State Horticulture Dept website.
• Chris' previous institutions Purdue and University of Wisconsin, Madison.
• North Carolina Fresh Produce Safety.
• CDC page on Listeria-in-melons outbreak.
• A list of cantaloupe-linked outbreaks that Ben considers to be a lot.
• Produce association that has someone who is looking for outbreak information on behalf of members.
• Reggie Brown, Florida Tomato Commission.
• Risk assessment of Listeria in RTE foods.
• CDC's explanation of underreporting foodborne illness.
• Markets where buyers typically don't require verification of GAPs.
• The produce meeting that Chris and Ben were at in Florida.
• Sweetpotatoes, a lot of which are grown in North Carolina.
• TGAPs, a law for many tomato producers in Florida.
• One of the industries that Ben worked with in Ontario.
• People that say food safety isn't competitive (ex 1, ex 2).
• A couple of the formulaic checklists that are out there (ex1, ex 2).
• Be the ball (or the bug).

Food Safety Talk Episode 3

Food Safety Talk 2: It Goes to 11

In this episode Don and Ben discover that they can talk about Food Safety for an hour more than once. And while talking every two weeks seems to work, actually getting stuff posted seems more difficult.

The link to the episode can be found here or at the bottom of this post.

Here are some link to some of the things they discussed:

• National food safety education month
• Google news time line food safety month
• Story Corps NPR, where Episode 00 of foodsafety talk will reside.
• Alar in apples, Don's introduction to food safety risk communication
• Alar, also known as Daminozide
• Keeping food safe during grilling season; also known as using the calendar for a lede.
• Ben laments the end of food safety month, 2009
• One different way to talk about food safety Also, Frank Zappa is awesome.
• Bites
• The top-eleven list Episode 2 is all about
• The incredible David Letterman, who has popularized top 10 lists
• Leafy greens, and how they can be made safety, courtesy of our friends at the FDA
• Lots of Salmonella illnesses in eggs because a lot are eaten.. See also this FAO/WHO document
• The 2011 Wright county eggs Salmonella outbreak
• Lots of science on Scrombrotoxin in tuna
• Spinal tap turns it up to 11, so great
• A large outbreak of botulism: the deadly baked potato
• US Federal Risk Assessment for Listeria monocytogenes in Deli Meats
• Is free soft-serve ice cream for pregnant women a good idea? Probably not
• IAFP 2011 Annual Meeting abstracts (where Ben saw a bunch of presentations on internalization of Salmonella in tomatoes)
• The Almond Queen herself: No, she is not an evil queen. She only uses her powers for good.
• Bob Rusts's Sproutnet and Bob's Sanderson's Sprout company
• Celebrity barf, because it's ok to pander for page views.
• Emerging Infectious Diseases Outbreak of Salmonella enteritidis Associated with Nationally Distributed Ice Cream Products -- Minnesota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin, 1994
• Frozen berries seem to be problematic in Europe

Food Safety Talk Episode 2

Food Safety Talk 1: Frampton Comes Alive

In this episode Don and Ben discover that they can indeed talk about Food Safety for an hour. This episode they talk about why they decided to do a podcast and about restaurant inspection.

Here are some link to some of the things they discussed:

• Ben's work homepage
• Don's work homepage
• Governmental food safety podcast that shall remain unnamed.
• Barfblog, Where Ben and Doug mostly and Don rarely blogs.
• Don's super secret National Academy of Sciences panel on publishing FSIS establishment specific data.
• USDA FSIS Freedom of Information Act page
• Indicator organisms background information
• The book Poisoned on the Jack-in-box-Outbreak.
• An article by Cruz et al. on the ability of routine restaurant inspections to predict food-borne outbreaks.
• Another article by Jones et al. on restaurant inspection scores and foodborne disease.
• The awesome International Association for Food Protection - IAFP
• StoryCorps, who recently interviewed folks from IAFP for our 100th anniversary.
• Mandated labels on raw meat that are perhaps not all that useful.
• Frampton Comes Alive, which came out when Don was in High School and Ben wasn't.
• FDA Listeria risk ranking
• A food safety expert we'd like to interview.
• North Carolina's restaurant inspection system.
• Wake county restaurant sanitation grades.
• The sort of restaurant inspection results that Don used to read back when there were newspapers.
• A popular chain, let's call them Billi's
• The 5by5 network, our inspiration.
• And some of our 5by5 appearances.

And here is the podcast:

Click here for Food Safety Talk season 1, episode 1