Filtering by Tag: The Wire

Food Safety Talk 53: Raw Milk Hamsterdam

Added on by Ben Chapman.
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They dove in to follow-up with additional information they received from Cheryl Deem from the American Spice Trade Association (ASTA) on the spice story in FST 52. Cheryl explained why ASTA didn't have a response to the FDA risk assessment as reported in this NYT article and shared a guidance document ASTA had prepared in 2011.

The discussion then turned to yet another pruno-related botulism outbreak in a Utah prison. Pruno has been discussed in FST 27 and the investigation of that outbreak has just been published in this paper, including the experimental Pruno recipe.

In the IAFP History segment, Don shared Manan Sharma's article on the 1970's, which marked changes to food consumption, food safety and environmental trends, including HACCP and microwaves. After a short 1970's detour to Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus Vol 1, Ben marveled about the advances in microwave technology, including the magnetron. While Ben's new microwave exceeded his cooking expectation, Trader Joe's cooking instructions for Mac & Cheese fell short. In contrast to Trader Joe's, who don't have a social media presence, Don did like Publix who asked for a haiku on Twitter.

Don then shared his latest irritation with Fightbac.org. It was prompted by their latest campaign called Bac Down and their lack of understanding that Listeria monocytogenes can grow at temperatures as low 32 °F. The guys challenged listeners to send in their creative Bac-themed puns for great prices!

Ben then wanted to talk about Jeffery Arthur Feehan who tried to shoplift meat in his pants. But Ben wasn't quite so worried simply because store employees put the meat back on the shelf (a big yuck factor!), but that Jeffrey took the meat to the restroom for his pants stuffing misdemeanor. Jeffrey's comment to the judges reminded Ben of a famous Animal House quote.

The discussion then turned to a recent paper on Raw Milk Consumption and illnesses. While the underreporting aspect got some publicity, Ben suggested that all the information wasn't going to change minds This had been highlighted in this article on Michigan consumers of raw milk and that's got to do with raw milk proponents not trusting health officials. Ben discussed the "The Abuela project", an example of an innovative approach to overcoming the difficulty of developing successful education campaigns. The challenge of course is how to develop a campaign when raw milk sales are illegal (as is the case in some states). Maybe a Raw Milk Hamsterdam is the solution?

Food Safety Talk 37: Inoculating the Plane

Added on by Don Schaffner.

The guys started with some follow up on The Wire, The Newsroom, what colored food does to your poop, Mike Batz’ link to Craig Goldwyn’s Huffington Post article on sprouts, T. gondii in Romanian animals, and F’ed up.

Aaron’s email then prompted a discussion about Plague Inc., the CDC’s interest in it and CDC’s own game Solve the Outbreak. The guys were impressed by how progressive the CDC is in terms of social media and new ways of engaging the public.

Don then provided some info about HDScores, a company that plans to make Restaurant Inspection Scores from 3100 jurisdictions from the US, Canada and UK widely available. This prompted a discussion about making restaurant scores available to the public in an interpretable way.

Ben shared his experiences from a recent trip to Calgary, where his 4 year old son Jack got sick, possibly with Norovirus. Ben was fascinated by Delta Airlines’ approach of dealing with the vomit problem, which involved plastic bags to contain the risk and coffee pods to manage the smell. Don was familiar with the approach thanks to Roderick on the Line. Ben didn’t agree with Delta’s decision to take them off plane first (thus inoculating the plane).  It reminded him of two different articles. Both Don and Ben were glad Delta had a plan, even if they didn’t quite agree with the whole plan.

Don then wanted to ask Ben about a Meatingplace article by Richard Raymond entitled Is our food safer than five years ago? (free registration needed to read). Ben explained why he didn’t agree with Richard’s arguments. Don agreed and asked aloud about conspiracy theories, not dissimilar from those surrounding New Coke.

Don then wanted get Ben’s take on the IFT’s March 2013 media update. In fact both Ben and Don thought that these updates were way over the top and it reminded them of "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons” and Doug Powell’s comment on Barfblog “I'm immediately suspicious of people … who say trust me.” Ben especially didn’t like that organizations say “trust us” and without telling people what the risks are and why they should be trusted. The discussion of food processing reminded Don of Richard Wrangham’s great book "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human.”

The last thing on Ben’s agenda was Doug’s comparison between the porn industry and the food industry, which had resulted in a fair bit of backlash against the legendary Doug. Ben noted that Doug’s point was how the two industries differed in how they manage the risks, which people missed. And boy… you mention porn and people get excited.

Food Safety Talk 36: Better Collaboration Without Pants

Added on by Ben Chapman.

After some initial expected Skype problems the guys talked about a range of topics including their favorite beers, Apple phobias, The Wire, about (not) working from home and Telecommuting policies, writing papers using DragonDictate, Don’s Squarespace 6 trial and Ben’s The Newsroom sharing system.

The guys then critiqued some obfuscated food safety messages about Listeria put out by the Partnership for Food Safety Education. The discussion then turned to the horse meat scandal and that audits are a tool rather than the tool. This reminded Don of the Chinese melamine incident and labeling fraud.

The guys then took a short podcasting detour to Scott Simpson’s Your Monkey Called article for The Magazine entitled You’re boring. It made them think about the stories they are trying to tell in podcast episodes, blog articles or presentations.

This reminded Ben of the story of Ashley’s  lack of emotion to a Norovirus outbreak on UNC campus, but we don’t know how she would react to Carolyn Dunn’s story on Food Myths and Memes of no baby carrots. This turned into a chat about kale, Brussels sprouts, beets, asparagus and bodily functions.

Ben then shared his surprise of reading about accelerated aging canned food, which prompted Don to think about a couple of early food science books – Ted Labuza’s “Shelf-Life Dating of Foods” and Harold McGee’s “Curious Cook.” Though Don wasn’t too keen on the idea of aging canned food.

The guys then wondered about how a Michigan firm could be operating without a HACCP plan and the subsequent recall. Don then got grumpy about Candy eggs that have all been cleared of Salmonella. Then Ben got on his favorite soap box about the lack of information that is being provided.

In the after dark the guys talked about Mobee Magic Charger, HyperJuice 2 external batteries, Don’s ski hat and Ben's toque ,and Ben’s fantasy baseball.​

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Food Safety Talk 33: Fresh Produce Punk Rock Hippieness

Added on by Don Schaffner.

Don starts by battling Skype again while Ben gets organized. The guys shared their favorite Starbucks coffee orders, which Don takes to go in his Marco-approved ™ Contigo travel mug. While these mugs can be challenging to wash, the guys agreed that washing them (or other dishes) in the bathroom was never a good idea. Even John Gruber knows that storing dishes in the bathroom is a bad idea, as he pointed out in a recent episode of The Talk Show. Ben then went into a coffee-fuelled rant about Getting Things Done, his favorite Canadian TV series ‘The Newsroom’, The Lumineers, Bad Religion and The Wire’s Stringer Bell. Don countered with Fat Boy Slim, the Luther, Bramwell, Ripper Street, and Transmetropolitan.

After a shout-out to Renee Boyer’s Food Safety class at Virginia Tech they talked about listener Bridgette’s link to “Dear Abby - Changing baby on eatery table takes the cake” and her comment that perhaps that common sense isn’t that common at all.

Next on the agenda was a discussion of the recent CDC report on foodborne disease attribution and how fresh produce is associated with greatest amount of foodborne illness, while poultry is linked to the greatest number of deaths. Don explained how the MDP’s retail sampling results match up reasonably well with actual illness estimates, according to his crude risk assessment. Ben was looking for information on what people could do to reduce the risks, as Don recently shared on WebMD. Ben was also surprise by the amount of deaths associated with norovirus (shown in the Technical Appendix 1 of the CDC report), the majority of which are associated with nursing homes. As the guys dug deeper into the results they unearthed more questions than answers and they cautioned against blindly trusting data.  As Don learned from reading Chumbawuba liner notes.

Ben and Don then discussed the recent Food Safety News article “Does The “No Illnesses” Language Belong in Recall Notices?” and whether the wording impacts on how consumers react.

The focus then turned to the FSIS “Let's Talk Chicken” podcast. The guys found the scripted nature very difficult to connect with. Instead they found CDC’s approach in “Preparedness 101: Zombie Apocalypse” much more engaging. Don felt that passion was important in podcasting and cited the Obsession times Voice talk by Merlin Mann and John Gruber at SXSW.  Don also noted that he listens to Neutral, and his new favorite podcast, for the voice, and not the content.

In the after dark the guys chatted about using American Apparel for making T-shirts, creating Food Safety Talk Decals, iPads, Ben’s hockey obsession and 2 Little Superheroes.

Food Safety Talk 33: Fresh Produce and Punk Rock Hippieness

Food Safety Talk 29: In a tin can insulated with towels

Added on by Don Schaffner.

The guys jumped right into the deep end and discussed the risks, or perceived risks, associated with salad bars and whether irrigation water or someone sneezing over the salad would pose a bigger risk. The guys also chatted about Don’s recent apparent food poisoning, new listeners to the podcast and Ben’s musical taste. Ben also admitted to being hooked on The Wire.

The discussion then turned to a barfblog article about research articles by Petran et al. on restaurant inspection, entitled “Health department inspection criteria more likely to be associated with outbreak restaurants in Minnesota” and “Using a theoretical predictive tool for the analysis of recent health department inspections at outbreak restaurants and relation of this information to foodborne illness likelihood”. While restaurant inspection per se may not improve public health, Petran et al. investigated whether the answers to specific inspection questions would help predict whether a given restaurant is at increased risk of a foodborne illness outbreak.  The guys specifically discussed Table 4 of the first article, available here, which looked at the risk of norovirus, Salmonella or Clostridium perfringens outbreaks as related to different inspection questions.

Ben and Don then turned their attention to the recent Multistate Outbreak of Salmonella Bredeney Infections Linked to Peanut Butter Manufactured By Sunland. This isn’t the first time that Salmonella and peanut butter caused trouble – previous examples include this this 2006/7 outbreak and this 2008/9 outbreak.  As a result of the Sunland Outbreak, IAFP will be running a webinar on Best Practices in Peanut Butter and Peanut Production. Don noted the challenge wasn’t a lack of knowledge of how to control Salmonella in peanuts, but getting the information to those who most need it.  Ben was particularly critical of companies who have testing schemes on which their food safety programs are built, but which continue to ship product despite detecting 9 different Salmonella strains. Ben also noted that denying test results is counterproductive when the epidemiological evidence is pointing at your product. A better communications approach was discussed in Food Safety Talk 25 in relation to the Salmonella outbreak linked with cantaloupe.

Don shared about his recent food poisoning in Hawaii, and noted that while foodborne outbreak investigations in Hawaii might be good, publicizing anything related to outbreaks wasn’t good for tourism. This reminded Ben of the heightened requirements for vendors at farmers markets in Hawaii. Don mentioned his dinner with Linda Harris, and her comment that the all of Hawaii fell under the Tester Amendment of the FSMA Act.

This brought to guys to an article that Don had recently reviewed, which had made him query who does the work of cooperative extension in Canada. Ben provided a bit of history and his understanding of the current situation. Ben believed that it fell mainly to the regulatory authorities, for example Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph Public Health. Don was worried that this was likely to result in important research findings not being developed into useful extension programs, especially with the influx of Canadian food safety extension specialists invading the US.

In the After Dark, Don talked a bit more about his trip to Hawaii and how he got so angry on his first night. The guys talked about their Thanksgiving plans and they finished where they started: Chick-fil-A.

Food Safety Talk 29: In a tin can insulated with towels

Food Safety Talk 27: A Bumper Crop of Fun: The Clostridium Episode

Added on by Ben Chapman.

The podcast stars with a discussion of the Violet Femmes, AC/DC, Ben’s recently acquired addiction to The Wire (he’s up to Episode 6), and the reason for why Don doesn’t need to feel guilty for not doing his homework – to watch The Newsroom.

Recently, Don had a call from a consumer who had made salsa (three weeks prior) but had forgotten to add the lemon juice. She wanted to know what she could do. The guys agreed that the concern was due to Clostridium botulinum which could grow in a low-acid environment and lead to toxin outgrowth (some guidance is provided in this NDSU document) and the best option is to discard the salsa.

This reminded Ben of the judging of the home food preservation competition of the North Carolina State Fair. He explained how he’s introduced additional food safety science into the judging process – with respect to which foods to taste and alternative criteria for evaluation. Ben’s got a set of criteria he uses to determine whether to exclude products from the competition (based on whether the product comes from a tested recipe source such as NCHFP, Ball's Blue Book or USDA's Guide to Home Canning), whether to allow for tasting and ensure that recommended processing times have been used (self-reported by the participants). Judges don't taste any high risk foods (e.g. beets), and they test pH of the lower risk products. Ben reviews the competition premium book annually to ensure things are clear. Don liked Ben’s approach and encouraged him to write his process up for the Journal of Extension.

The conversation then focused on the safety of a brandied fruit starter recipe that Ben has been asked to evaluate. Given the acidity of the canned ingredients, and while E. coli O157 could be an issue, the guys agreed that the major concern is again Clostridium botulinum. In particular, Don was concerned about ‘cooks’ who don’t follow the recipe and replace canned fruit with fresh fruit or sugar with honey – both of which are likely to introduce C. botulinum into the mixture. Don cited the recent outbreak of botulism in a prison from Pruno as an example of such innovative behavior. Ben then queried the effect of refrigeration, which Don thought would have an impact on C. botulinum spores, but might also impact the fermentation. This reminded Ben of his early days in extension work when he was asked about an Amish Friendship Bread starter, which has been researched and found to present little risk if done properly.

The conversation the shifted to cooking and serving large amounts of chili, as Ben had been asked about food safety considerations for a chili supper fundraiser. Ben put the organizers in touch with the local environmental health officers to make sure they comply with the necessary regulations. In addition, he provided them with some information about how to achieve rapid cooling (and why it was important). While doing his research for this question he found an article on Clostridium perfringens during cooling in commercial chili. Don has been involved in similar extension work on roast beef for which he used this FSIS Appendix B. In addition, Don noted that for many practical applications the ComBase Perfringens Predictor is a great tool.

The guys made a fleeting comment about the current XL beef E. coli O157 outbreak, which they may discuss more next time.

Food Safety Talk 27: A Bumper Crop of Fun: The Clostridium Episode

Food Safety Talk 25: Two Little Super Heroes, Mangoes and Cantaloupes

Added on by Don Schaffner.

The guys started the show with the usual technobabble. Ben explained the history of barfblog and the reason for the recent server switch. He also mentioned the attack on GoDaddy by Anonymous – possibly because of the elephant shooting and their support of SOPA – which affected 1.5 million websites, including barfblog and Dani’s new mommy-blog. The guys counseled listeners not to piss off the Anonymous or WikiLeaks people.

Don then talked about his recent radio appearance to talk about the Stanford meta-analysis on the safety of organic and conventional foods. Don complained how a Google search on the topic resulted in a large number of media publications, but except for the New York Times article, none provided information to help track down the original publication. Eventually he found the original article, and in his quest to find work on microbial food safety of organic food he then tracked down a couple of papers by Francisco Diez-Gonzalez. But Don’s key message during the radio interview was that people shouldn’t worry about the safety of conventional versus organic, but instead focus on eating fruits and vegetables, because they are healthy.

Ben then talked about the ambiguity in the Stanford press release, such as “there isn’t much difference between organic and conventional foods, if you’re an adult and making a decision based solely on your health.” Maybe that’s why some people took this paper as evidence that organic foods were better. Nevertheless, Ben liked the conclusion that “this is information that people can use to make their own decisions based on their level of concern about pesticides, their budget and other considerations.” Don thought that for the majority of people it was more beneficial to buy more fruit and vegetables than to buy the expensive ones.

Ben still hasn’t started his homework – watching The Wire. But at least he’s done The Wire personality test – just to find out he’s “Snot Boogie.”

Ben then recalled the discussion from last podcast and how washing cantaloupe increased the probability of pathogen spread. Michelle Danyluk commented to the guys that she believe it was retail stores who required washing. Ben wondered whether the buyers knew about the risk of washing. Don strongly doubted it as people probably thought that not washing is riskier, because they don’t consider cross-contamination and because they use sanitizer. That said, Don did wonder whether producers really understood and had verified the efficacy of their systems. Ben recalled that as part of the T-GAP program in Florida the field packing of tomatoes has been outlawed, and he was concerned that this would likely result in producers to choose to wash tomatoes.

Mike Batz’ tweeted about CDC having made MMWR available online for 1952-1982. Don fondly recalled the only enjoyable bit of his first undergraduate microbiology class where the professor would read them an “MMWR bedtime story.” The guys reminisced about the stories in MMWR 1(1) and how far technology had come – unlike then we can now often find the cause of an outbreak.

Don then followed up a comment on norovirus on cruise ships (last episode) that Andreas had left them in the show notes. Craig Hedburg had previously shared with Don that while people shed norovirus for a long time they only spread it when they have active diarrhea. Don also noted that infection via hands touching infected objects, such as door knobs and railings, was less likely than infection via direct ingestion (as a result of cross contamination at the self serving bar).

Ben then recalled a conversation with Richard Sprenger, who runs the training company Highfield, in Dubai last year. In particular, Richard had said that full implementation of HACCP at retail would require elimination of outside contamination sources as much as possible, but doing so would reduce sales. Hence, any retailer wanting to remain in business had to weigh up the risk and benefits of eliminating all potential contamination sources. This then prompted a short discussion about various risk-benefit tradeoffs that retailers would have to consider all the time – though Don prefers those who err on the side of caution.

The discussion then turned to the large foodborne illness outbreak associated with Mexican mangoes, which has now resulted in various product recalls. Don talked about a hypothetically bitchy email from an unnamed colleague, which sparked a discussion about outbreaks and recalls and how they do and don’t occur together. Don recalled this USDA report about a green onion related hepatitis A outbreak and the associated economic impacts on Mexican producers with various degrees of GAP implementations. In particular, it showed that those doing the right things were less impacted, if at all. Ben then stressed the need for all producers to demonstrate how they were doing the right things, which was, at least partially, in response to a Huffington Post article on the requirements placed on organic producers.

The conversation then turned to the difficulty of good risk communication in the face of an outbreak. In particular, Don recalled his recent ‘deer in the headlights’ moment when he was asked how he would advise Chamberlain Farms to communicate with the associated press after the link between patients and isolates found on Chamberlain Farm fields had been confirmed. Luckily, Doug Powell and Ben managed to save Don by providing some well thought out words.

Ben finished off with some information about a workshop he delivered to producers on how to recover from a recall or outbreak. In particular, he recalled a retail representative comment on how they make decisions about whether they continue to buying from a supplier after an outbreak – they base it on how the supplier reacts and communicates and whether they know what they are doing.

In the after dark the guys reminisced about Alf and Don also found a Frank Zappa on the toilet picture online, in memory of Doug writing his words of wisdom in the dunny.

Food Safety Talk 25: Two Little Super Heroes, Mangoes And Cantaloupes

Food Safety Talk 24: Bagel tongs for twenty, Bob!

Added on by Don Schaffner.

Today’s guest was Mike Batz, um, Joe Smith, who Skyped in from a hotel room while emptying the mini bar. Ben still hasn’t done his homework from last Season – watching The Wire. And to Mike's disappointment Ben hasn’t even watched The Lego Wire. The discussion then turned to playing with Lego, Ben’s vandalism activities as a teenager, craft paper maze making, Dungeons and Dragons and The Wire characters' D&D alignment.

The guys then got serious about food safety and discussed the Salmonella Typhimurium outbreak that CDC has linked to cantaloupes. At the time of the recording, the FDA hadn’t specifically commented on the potential source, though Chamberlain Farms had begun recalling cantaloupes. The guys thought it was strange that no FDA/CDC update on the situation has been issued for days and the overall lack of communication around this outbreak. However, Don noted that the lawyers are getting their ducks lined up and Bill Marler had already blogged about a lawsuit. Don asked Ben whether there is ever a right time to say nothing in a case like this. Ben didn’t think there was, but suggested that there was a right time to say “we’re uncertain” instead. He recalled the discussion mentioned in FST episode 6 about an outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 associated with the North Carolina State Fair, where the North Carolina Division of Public Health updated the information of what was known on a daily basis. Ben thought that this was better than the five-day cone-of-silence.

Mike was bothered by regulators implicating a whole growing region or commodity rather than naming the implicated farm, especially since the farm had already initiated a recall. It reminded him of what happened to Florida tomato growers a few years ago. Mike pointed out that implicating a whole region does not provide any incentive to an individual farmer to follow GAPs and do the right thing – since a neighbor who doesn’t do the right thing could wipe out all that effort.

In contrast, the Burch Farms recall, which was initiated after Listeria was detected on cantaloupes, but without an outbreak having occurred, did not result in the same level of concern. But Ben noted that the Burch Farms recall nevertheless resulted in questions being raised by buyers and cancellations of contracts, and as such the recall still impacted on the whole industry.

Don noted the fundamental differences between Listeria and Salmonella. He reminded the guys that the risk depends on the dose and that the dose-response relationship differs between the two organisms. Ben also noted the problem of applying a zero tolerance standard for ready-to-eat-foods to these agricultural commodity products, and Don highlighted the need for quantification when testing in addition to simple presence/absence testing.

Ben then explained the differences in the post harvest systems between California, where cantaloupes are not washed, compared to North Carolina, where cantaloupes are regularly washed. He noted that the use of water might provide an opportunity for cross contamination, which Don totally agreed with. The discussion then turned to Ben explaining that cantaloupes are washed because that’s what the industry has always done, though his experience indicates that farmers might be open to re-engineering their processes.

Don then produced a smorgasbord of potential topics for discussion and the guys settled on a 2002 blog post by John Gruber about Bagel Tongs on Fedora Review. In the article Gruber worried about bagels and that the “tong-arms are covered with some sort of moist, brown sediment.” Ben agreed with Gruber and would rather use tissue paper to pick up the bagels, though mainly because he feared contracting Norovirus from the tong handles. Don agreed with Ben that it’s not the crap at the end of the tongs, but the crap you can’t see that’s the problem. He also recalled that some cruise liners have a norovirus risk reduction measure, which involves staff serving passengers at the self-serve buffet on the first three days of the cruise.

Ben then reminisced about his high school days, when he wasn’t vandalizing his neighbors’ backyards but when he was working in a bulk food store. He had to clean and sanitize the scoop on a weekly basis, though he actually did this only when the prunes got really gunky. He never sanitized the handles – got to hold on to something while washing the scoop. Mike thought that the epidemiological evidence, that placed Ben at the epicenter of foodborne illness outbreaks, was building.

The show finished by Don telling the guys about wanting to order some Food Safety Talk promotional refrigerator temperature sensing magnets for inclusion in the MaxFunCon EAST show bags.

By now Mike Joe had sobered up somewhat and was eyeing the Arrogant Bastard that he’d been contemplating and this evolved into a broader discussion of alcohol consumption patterns.

In the after dark the guys talked about a range of “stuff” including Mike’s five-day FAO/WHO meeting bender on foodborne parasites in Rome.

Food Safety Talk 24: Bagel tongs for twenty, Bob!

Food Safety Talk 4: Ode To A Pittsburgh (Michael Batz, Guest)

Added on by Don Schaffner.

Episode 4 of Food Safety Talk. In which Ben and Don can't mesh their schedules, so Don interviews Michael Batz, who turns out to be just as big a food safety nerd as Don or Ben. Like certain other podcasters, Batz insisted on using WiFi rather than a wired Ethernet connection as suggested by the experts. Although he promised to "sit real close" to his wireless base station, the quality of the call degrades toward the end. Don was prepared to drop in a few choice sound effects in case Mike dropped out completely, but in the end everything Mike had to say made it into the recording.

Food Safety Talk Episode 4