Food Safety Talk 46: The mother of all messy epidemiology

During their podcasting foreplay Don and Ben discussed their breakfast choices, their love for guacamole (despite the risks associated with cilantro), and the challenge of separating work from private life.

The guys then got onto the recent IAFP annual meeting (abstracts are here), which clearly was a huge success. Ben was impressed by Michelle Danyluk’s deconstruction of the FSMA Fresh Produce rule to create a convincing story, which included recently published work from Don and Michelle. Ben then talked about the symposium on farmers' markets, and Erin Jobe’s talk about the realities of the Carrboro Farmer’s Market. Lastly, the guys talked about the round table discussion on “Bridging Gaps between Scientific Assessment of Risk and Public Perception” which was reported on Barfblog and Food Safety News. And of course, IAFP always includes Karaoke.

Moving on from IAFP, Don noted that he’s following John Gruber and Merlin Mann's advice and is podcasting for just one person, Chuck Haas. Turns out that Chuck also sent an email about an upcoming publication on the dose-response curve for Helicobacter pylori (see FST 45).

Ben then recalled the conversation about the Salmonella outbreak associated with the Holiday Inn and the article he wrote on barfblog. Ben wondered why employees wouldn’t tell management that they were sick but would tell the health department? Both Don and Ben concluded that it’s surely related to not getting paid while being off work.

The discussion then turned to the current Cyclospora messiness and disagreement between epidemiologists. While there is lots of bad advice out there, the most recent information indicates a link to prewashed salad mix to Taylor Farms de Mexico, though this information wasn’t available when ACSH reported that the “mystery was solved". The guys also noted Bill Marler’s interesting thoughts about disclosure as well as why naming a product too early can have consequences. The guys also re-iterating that washed fresh-cut salads don’t need additional washing.

To finish off, Ben wanted to talk about Jimmy John’s who are considering bringing back sprouts, with a warning sign. Don felt that this approach was nonsense and that the risks of eating still outweigh the risks of not eating. Instead Don wanted to know about Jimmy John’s food safety program, and whether it included buying from sprouters who get it, like Bob Sanderson’s at Jonathan Sprouts. Ben wasn’t against the label though he felt that it could be improved.

In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s video call with IFT, his appearance on SSKTN’s Show me your Mic (including the After Show me your Mic), preschool and the Food Safety Talk newsletter. 

Food Safety Talk 45: My chicken is dry

Ben had difficulty talking while eating, which didn’t matter too much while the guys discussed the weather. A link from fan Erin (see also barfblog coverage), on the emerging food-safety-expose genre got Don and Ben warmed up for the show.

To follow up from FST 44, Ben’s H. pylori issues have been resolved, though one of his hockey friends had an interesting story involving yogurt. The guys then followed up on the mechanically tenderized beef discussion from FST 43 and FST 44, and a bit about Ben’s grad student’s research plan.

The guys then took a pop culture detour thanks to Ben worrying about peaking to early (research wise speaking), which remind Don of a Dan Bern’s Tiger Wood song. The discussion also covered Sound City, and some Australian pop-culture with Muriel's Wedding and The Castle.

In the bug trivia segment the guys focused on Vibrio parahaemolyticus, which is the other fast growing bacterium (c.f. FST 39) and can double every 7 minutes under optimal conditions. Don was familiar with this organism as he’s published about the effects of lime juice on V. parahaemolyticus in ceviche. The guys then tossed around some ideas for a follow up segment for when they run out of bugs for bug trivia which included using the IAFP 100 year celebration materials.

The discussion then turned to a Food Safety News articles on the NC Farm Bill and Ben thought that there might be some unintended consequences to this Bill. The guys then discussed the broader issues related to the risks of producing food, especially produce, and what this means for liability. The guys agreed that in some cases there just aren’t identifiable contributing factors, such as in the Fayetteville outbreak, and contemplated that this might differ in terms of liability compared to a case where there is clear negligence.

The focus then shifted to chickens, which was prompted by this paper in Journal of Food Safety. The rates of Campylobacter and Salmonella found on chickens purchased from farmer’s markets and supermarkets were similarly high. Don was also interested in a link shared by Andreas about raw chicken hand towel, especially because of the comments posted to it. To finish off the chicken theme the guys talked about a Salmonella Heidelberg outbreak linked to a single poultry producer. But the industry and USDA have been vewy, vewy quiet!

Ben’s watching The Newsroom again and in the after dark the guys were frustrated by their iTunes ratings and that Carl Winter and even a dog food safety podcast episode was rating higher. Ben also shared the sacrifices he has to make to get new hockey skates. The guys finished off with a trail mix inspired Best in Show, Family Tree, Launch Bar and Food Safety Talk shirts.

Food Safety Talk 44: Stool Sampling Tools

The show started with Mr. Roboto, Brazilian Cheese Bread, the upcoming IAFP’s annual meeting in Charlotte, and StoryCorps (not to be confused with Adventure Time). At the IAFP meeting Ben will be stuffing bags at the Food Lion and Don will try to control the unruly Dr. Harris at her first board meeting. The guys then celebrated Canada Day with some pop culture such as The Tragically Hip, Rheostatics and Frampton Comes Alive! (as featured on FST 1), and Reality Bites.

Ben and Don then turned their attention to Helicobacter pylori. Ben reported having had a belch inducing H. pylori infection, which was diagnosed by a breath test. It reminded Ben of Don’s asymptomatic H. pylori infection. Don wondered how Ben got exposed to H. pylori and whether it may have been foodborne, which Ben agreed was a possibility. In fact, Helicobacter pylori and Food Products indicates that the organism can also be widespread in some drinking water supplies. Don also noted an article on “Assessing the Risks and Benefits of Treating Helicobacter pylori Infection" which pointed at the possible commensal role of H. pylori.

The discussion moved from gastrointestinal microflora, to soil and water microflora and ecology and the impact of microflora on safety of the produce grown in different areas. This turned into a broader discussion of farming and extension and the need for multifunctional teams, such as NoroCore and STEC CAP.

In FST episode 43 the guys discussed the silliness of washing bananas, and Ben found yet another ridiculous article on the same topic. Don pointed out the lack of epidemiological evidence linking foodborne illness with bananas, though he recognized that “absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.” The earlier conversation about bananas prompted Don to post humorous photos of the individually wrapped bananas he found in the United Lounge at São Paulo airport.

Don then shared an email from listener ‘Deep South’ who was wondering where mechanically tenderized beef was being sold. An FMI survey of the membership indicated that none of the responding members sold this type of beef. So while it appears that the product is predominantly sold through food service, Ben noted the lack of epidemiological evidence connecting illness outbreaks with food service.

The guys then turned their attention to the Townsend Farm related Hepatitis A outbreak, which FDA has now linked to Pomegranate seeds. Ben applauded Bill Keene for focusing on employees first. Ben shared his thoughts about handling of pomegranate seeds and how they could become contaminated with Lynne Terry via Twitter. But are other producers learning from this and asking their suppliers the right questions?

In the after dark the guys discussed Ben’s tenure application. Good luck, Ben.

Food Safety Talk 19: Not Here Today

The guys start the podcast with their usual technological discussion. Skype was again the opening topic, as Don found out that the old Skype remains installed when the new Skype is installed (at least on the Mac). Ben then reminisced about his Commodore C64, which eventually was replaced with a 386. Don remember how fast the 386 was compared the 286, though he used mainframe computers with a line editor (probably similar to vi) to type up papers for Joe Regenstein’s food science course.

The discussion became more personal when Don shared his recent endoscopy experience. While most of the hospital staff seemed to know the value of the Checklist Manifesto (which the guys discussed in Episode 12), Don wondered whether he should have written “Not here today!” on one of his body parts. Don was particularly excited to find out that he had a Helicobacter pylori infection (asymptomatic).

It didn’t take Ben long to get over his jealousy and find out lots about H. pylori, thanks to Wikipedia (which is never wrong). Don’s feeling of being special quickly dissipated when Ben told him that H. pylori infection is the most widespread infection worldwide.

Ben then had some follow up on barfblog on a Salmonella Paratyphi B outbreak linked to tempeh which the guys discussed in Episode 18 – Bunkum. The update was that pathogen was found in the starter culture the outbreak is not a result of a sanitary deficiency of the tempeh producer. However, the guys were wondering why there haven’t been other illness reports given the widespread distribution. This information around this outbreak has helped Ben gather his thoughts about the FSMA for a recent meeting at Oklahoma State University's Food and Ag Product Center organized by Chuck Willoughby and the potential benefits of asking suppliers about their risk reduction measures.

But even the best intentions in product labelling doesn’t indemnify the producer nor guarantee appropriate product use as shown in the recent outbreak associated with tuna scrape which was used for sushi.

Ben’s research into the etymology of 'bunkum' led him to Wiktionary (which is also never wrong) and he managed to really impress Dani (his wife).

Ben also reported on discussions at a recent North Carolina Commission for Public Health meeting in relation to the adoption of the FDA Food Code. The food code would remove the requirement to sell burgers cooked if requested by a customer – provided the risks are explained. This led to a discussion on whether consumer advisory disclosures, including labels, really conveys the risk to the consumer and whether they can make appropriate and informed decisions.

Don recalled the traps with compliance, which led New Jersey to be the laughing stock of the nation in 1992 for not allowing the serving of undercooked eggs, which led Johnny Carson (not Jay Leno) to comment “there's something wrong with a state in which you can buy an Uzi but there's a 10-day waiting period to get a Caesar salad."

Don also wondered what compliance with handwashing requirements would really look like?

The guys wondered whether there are other companies who’s food safety culture is ingrained enough to steer high risk customers to less risky products. Ben asked whether Subway would ever advise pregnant woman against consuming cold sandwiches containing deli meats because of Listeria risks.

Don then had a long rant about cross-contamination and viruses, after reading this Microbe Magazine article, which led him to this JAM article. It highlights the importance of microbial transmission between surfaces, which Don’s grad student Dane is also currently writing up.

Don and Ben discussed this Journal of Infectious Disease article, from which Don concluded that food storage containers should not been stored in the bathroom. Ben’s correspondence with one of the author’s, 'epi-god' Bill Keene, confirmed that the Norovirus outbreak had nothing to with the fact that the bag was reusable.

Don used dick fingers when he referred to work on the risks associated with reusable bags. The guys concluded with a discussion of the term “infectious dose” which makes Don’s want to reach through the computer screen and slap them, preferably with the median infectious dose (LD50).

Ben found Canadian band Cuff the Duke on Spotify, which Don though sounded like a dirty sex-thing, but is actually a hockey term for pulling the goalie.

Food Safety Talk 19: Not Here Today