Food Safety Talk 51: Pee on the radiator

After congratulating Don on his birthday, the guys talked about their recent travels, including 10 slaca, the 3rd Asia Pacific International Conference on Food Safety, the China International Food Safety & Quality Conference & Expo, and then they compared their favorite David Tharp stories.

In follow up to FST 49: Less Risky Bathroom Event, Don shared some information about the microbiome of urine though he couldn't comment on which way to wipe. Ben also asked Don about the hygiene of hockey locker rooms, which was prompted by Pekka Rinne's E. coli infection. The discussion about locker rooms then reminded Ben about a big Norovirus outbreak of basketball players and Don that his student Hanna will be visiting some public bathrooms as part of the NoroCore project. And somehow the conversation turned to North America's most photogenic Major Rob Ford, aka Major McCrack.

In the Food Safety History segment, Don returned to the 1940's of IAFP's history, where advances in food safety were largely due to the requirements for supplying troops in World War II. This was not the first time that great advances in food safety were made in response to military needs, see for example the invention of canning.

Ben then wanted to talk about road kill, which has earned him the title of Dr Roadkill. This discussion originated from this recent article about a planned Montana permit system for salvaging road kill. The guys didn't agree with Fred Pritzker's arguments against the system.

The discussion then turned to the FDA Risk Profile Pathogen and Filth in Spices. The guys were disappointed by the Spice Producers response. It reminded them about the importance of good risk communication. Foster Farms provided another example of 'not to get it quite right', who added to their recent woes by showing that they can't count. Don wondered about their social media strategy and why so many media managers are dipsh*ts.

The guys touched on the fall out from the Sunland bankruptcy before moving on to fishy issues surrounding the regulation and trade of catfish.

To finish off the guys prepared for Thanksgiving with a Lifehacker article on leftovers. While the article was OK, the comments made their stomachs turn. Clearly they need to continue their battle to fix the internet one comment at a time.

In the after dark the guys discussed the latest OS X Mavericks upgrade, the TV show Veep, rejecting journal articles, Ben becoming a grumpy old man, Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, End of the World, Adventure Time (Season 3)), Bronies and the Pulling the String podcast.

Food Safety Talk 50: Fifty pink flamingos

The guys started the show with a Flamingo flash back, Don's iTunes Radio "Grateful Dead" channel experiment (sans Katy Perry and Kanye West), New Girl with Zooey Deschanel, She & Him, Steve Earle, The Walking Dead, the Pulling the String podcast, and The Lone Ranger.

Don then shared how he used the Internet's way-back machine (not to be confused with Mister Peabody's WABAC Machine) to get around the black-out of US government websites.

Ben then turned to an NPR article about the Niche Meat Processor Assistance Network and a Kickstarter campaign to create an open source HACCP plan. This lead into a broader discussion of the work undertaken by extension specialists, Don's 'useless' Twitter exchange and how to find out about food safety using Let Me Google That For You.

In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared information from the IAFP History book about the 1950's and an increased focus on preventing foodborne illness.

Don then returned to his recent Twitter exchange about hand washing with @Frankly and @danbenjamin, which included this article from About.com. The article, which referenced unpublished work from 2000 by Barbara Almanza on hand sanitizers, got the guys fired up about the regulatory system and undertaking effective research on the assessing the efficacy of hand sanitizers. After taking yet another detour into the world of The Wire, the guys returned to hand sanitizers and discussed some research articles, including:

• Effectiveness of Liquid Soap and Hand Sanitizer against Norwalk Virus on Contaminated Hands

• Improved inactivation of nonenveloped enteric viruses and their surrogates by a novel alcohol-based hand sanitizer

• Comparative efficacy of seven hand sanitizers against murine norovirus, feline calicivirus, and GII.4 norovirus

• Management of Risk of Microbial Cross-Contamination from Uncooked Frozen Hamburgers by Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer

To finish this monster show, the guys briefly touched on Foster Farms fiasco, which they've kept on their list of things to discuss next time.

By the time the after dark came around Don was contemplating a career in pottery, while Ben favored rolling cigars for a living.

Food Safety Talk 49: Less Risky Bathroom Event

The show started with Don and Ben sharing their love for iOS7 and iTunes Radio. Ben's still on his Beach Boys trip, having recently watched Beautiful Dreamer.

The discussion then quickly turned to food safety follow up. Ben wasn't happy with his Food Safety News interview on dishwasher cooking and the message that he might have sent. Don felt that a really important aspect was the multitude of variables that can change from one dishwasher to another and hence that it was difficult be safe.

The guys then discussed some listener feedback about safety of low sugar jellies, which was related to the work of one of Don's master's student. The listener commended the work on low sugar jellies, which will help provide important information to existing Cottage Food Guidelines. The guys then delved into the effects of water activity, pH, sugar contents for the safety of the preserving process and how some products, such as the Cronut Maple Jam, fall far outside the known safe zone. This got Ben onto the Toronto Public Health investigation update on the Cronut Burger outbreak, which was related to the already risky jam not being refrigerated by the producer or the vendor who purchased it.

Don then gave Amy Jane Gruber, from Just The Tip podcast, a plug for her participation in the Fare Walk for Food Allergy. You might even hear her on a future FST episode.

In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared the initial editorial from the journal of milk technology, which while written in 1937 still resonates strongly with today's food safety activities.

Ben then described personal challenge he has urinating in his office building without getting splash back. This reminded the guys of the aerosolization in the bathroom and potential risk that this can pose.

Ben then recalled the UPI story about a Swedish man urinating on supermarket produce. While urine is normally sterile, Ben wondered about the risks. While Don couldn't quantify the risk on the spot, he noted that in HACCP terms hand washing after a bowel movement was a CCP while after peeing it could be considered a GHP. But both agreed that sick workers just shouldn't be at work.

The discussion then turned to raw milk cheeses, which was prompted by the Gort's Gouda raw milk cheese related outbreak in Canada. Don noted that the rate of inactivation in a particular product was more important that just a '60-day limit' say. That's because the final risk is integrally related to the starting concentration and the inactivation rate.

To finish off the podcast Don wanted to talk about the Food Safety News article on food date labels, which was based on this NRDC work. While Don agreed that date labels were confusing, he was also rather sceptical of the underlying work.

In the after dark, the guys talked about the new markdown format for the shownotes and planned their podcasting schedules for the next few episodes.

Food Safety Talk 48: Ninja moves to rock and roll

The guys started the show with some general chit chat about The Beer Store and The Nail Shop, the Beach Boys, including "Pet Sounds", Chuck Berry, Bed Bad Baaaaaaatz, Don's Etymotic hf5 earphones, Twitter, (including this discussion), and Barb O'Neill's great work.

Prompted by a link from Alejandro Amezquita, the guys then turned their attention to laundry and in the process gave the phrase "Eat My Shorts!" a new meaning. In the article, Lisa Ackerley discussed the hygiene of laundering. The guys recalled a couple of research articles by Chuck Gerba related to the topic (here and here). Neither Don nor Ben were particularly worried about this.

This reminded Ben of The Salt article on cooking food in the dishwasher. The guys discussed the potential risk of this approach and the sciences that is needed. Another The Salt article on washing poultry had also resulted in a large amount of social media engagement, which is something the Don and Ben are always keen to explore. And both enjoyed Alton Brown's proper method for washing out the inside of a whole poultry.

The guys then moved onto the bug trivia replacement segment called Food Safety History, in honor of a 100 years of the IAFP Journal of Food Protection. In this episode the Don covered the pre 1940 era. It all started with the Journal of Milk Technology and the connection with raw milk reminded Ben of this Toronto Star article.

Don then wanted to talk about this NY Times article, related to Salmonella in spices, and the related Food Microbiology article. Don posed Ben the questions that he was asked for a Rutgers Q&A press release on this topic and the guys compared their answers.

The guys then got fired up about the Cronut Burger-related outbreak article by Jason Tetro. Ben didn't quite agree with some of Jason's assumptions, so Ben queried the manufacturers about the parameters of the product, which Le Dolci didn't know. Ben eventually found the answer from Toronto Public Health, and was able to set the record straight.

To finish off, Don mentioned The New Disruptors podcast (earlier episodes), which featured Marisa McClellan in Episode 38 "Yes, we can!" talking about food preservation. Don was pleasantly surprised by her knowledge, including her mention of the National Center for Home Food Preservation.

In the after dark the guys continued the canning discussion, including Canvolution, Canning Across America and pink flamingos for their 50th episode.

Food Safety Talk 47: But that's not science

The guys started by talking about their office and home podcasting set-ups; how Don inspired his son Zac; podcast sponsorship (thanks Dr. Indian Clarified Butter); the Food Science short course at Rutgers; MC-ing; Ben’s wedding; and, customer service at Frito Lay’s and General Mills.

In the bug trivia segment the guys talked about the protozoan parasite Toxoplasma gondii, recently reviewed by Beniamino and colleagues. T. gondii was ranked the second worst pathogen in terms of quality adjusted life years (QALY) by Mike Batz (guest on FST 4) and colleagues, and recently featured on Back to Work.

The discussion took a short detour to food thermometers, including the PDT 300, iGrill, and ThermaPen, before coming around to the retiring Pete Snyder, from HI-TM. Pete is held in high regard by both Ben and Don, not only because he wasn’t afraid to ask questions, like Don did in the comment exchange to the Snapper barfblog article. Thanks to Pete’s guidance Ben is always seeking the primary information for creating his Infosheets.  A classic example of Pete’s drive for the scientific justification relates to the information produced on thawing poultry at ambient temperatures, which was picked up by barfblog.

Ben then talked about the CDC report on the tempeh related outbreak discussed in FST 18. He found it interesting that many of the illnesses appeared to be caused by cross-contamination rather than consumption of the contaminated, unpasteurized tempeh. Don was bummed that his own work wasn’t cited by the CDC, but he noted that Michelle’s recent work showed that cross-contamination was facilitated by moisture. This then turned into a broader discussion around managing risks in a food service setting.

Don then wanted to hear Ben’s thoughts about Bill Marler’s question on what cantaloupe and baseball have in common. Bill’s suggestion to change the incentives had the flavor of a Modest Proposal, but without the satire. Ben agreed that retailers and restaurants should be held responsible, as without them there isn’t enough pressure on the suppliers. The guys then discussed third party audits and the setting of supplier standards. Both agreed that the current system doesn’t work how it should and that proper data analysis could provide significant insights.

In the after dark the guys talked about Ben’s upcoming trip to Brazil, the PCV show, food safety a-holes, Mexican wrestling masks, the Conference for Food Protection councils, laws and sausages, and getting hurt at the doctor's office.

Food Safety Talk 46: The mother of all messy epidemiology

During their podcasting foreplay Don and Ben discussed their breakfast choices, their love for guacamole (despite the risks associated with cilantro), and the challenge of separating work from private life.

The guys then got onto the recent IAFP annual meeting (abstracts are here), which clearly was a huge success. Ben was impressed by Michelle Danyluk’s deconstruction of the FSMA Fresh Produce rule to create a convincing story, which included recently published work from Don and Michelle. Ben then talked about the symposium on farmers' markets, and Erin Jobe’s talk about the realities of the Carrboro Farmer’s Market. Lastly, the guys talked about the round table discussion on “Bridging Gaps between Scientific Assessment of Risk and Public Perception” which was reported on Barfblog and Food Safety News. And of course, IAFP always includes Karaoke.

Moving on from IAFP, Don noted that he’s following John Gruber and Merlin Mann's advice and is podcasting for just one person, Chuck Haas. Turns out that Chuck also sent an email about an upcoming publication on the dose-response curve for Helicobacter pylori (see FST 45).

Ben then recalled the conversation about the Salmonella outbreak associated with the Holiday Inn and the article he wrote on barfblog. Ben wondered why employees wouldn’t tell management that they were sick but would tell the health department? Both Don and Ben concluded that it’s surely related to not getting paid while being off work.

The discussion then turned to the current Cyclospora messiness and disagreement between epidemiologists. While there is lots of bad advice out there, the most recent information indicates a link to prewashed salad mix to Taylor Farms de Mexico, though this information wasn’t available when ACSH reported that the “mystery was solved". The guys also noted Bill Marler’s interesting thoughts about disclosure as well as why naming a product too early can have consequences. The guys also re-iterating that washed fresh-cut salads don’t need additional washing.

To finish off, Ben wanted to talk about Jimmy John’s who are considering bringing back sprouts, with a warning sign. Don felt that this approach was nonsense and that the risks of eating still outweigh the risks of not eating. Instead Don wanted to know about Jimmy John’s food safety program, and whether it included buying from sprouters who get it, like Bob Sanderson’s at Jonathan Sprouts. Ben wasn’t against the label though he felt that it could be improved.

In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s video call with IFT, his appearance on SSKTN’s Show me your Mic (including the After Show me your Mic), preschool and the Food Safety Talk newsletter. 

Food Safety Talk 45: My chicken is dry

Ben had difficulty talking while eating, which didn’t matter too much while the guys discussed the weather. A link from fan Erin (see also barfblog coverage), on the emerging food-safety-expose genre got Don and Ben warmed up for the show.

To follow up from FST 44, Ben’s H. pylori issues have been resolved, though one of his hockey friends had an interesting story involving yogurt. The guys then followed up on the mechanically tenderized beef discussion from FST 43 and FST 44, and a bit about Ben’s grad student’s research plan.

The guys then took a pop culture detour thanks to Ben worrying about peaking to early (research wise speaking), which remind Don of a Dan Bern’s Tiger Wood song. The discussion also covered Sound City, and some Australian pop-culture with Muriel's Wedding and The Castle.

In the bug trivia segment the guys focused on Vibrio parahaemolyticus, which is the other fast growing bacterium (c.f. FST 39) and can double every 7 minutes under optimal conditions. Don was familiar with this organism as he’s published about the effects of lime juice on V. parahaemolyticus in ceviche. The guys then tossed around some ideas for a follow up segment for when they run out of bugs for bug trivia which included using the IAFP 100 year celebration materials.

The discussion then turned to a Food Safety News articles on the NC Farm Bill and Ben thought that there might be some unintended consequences to this Bill. The guys then discussed the broader issues related to the risks of producing food, especially produce, and what this means for liability. The guys agreed that in some cases there just aren’t identifiable contributing factors, such as in the Fayetteville outbreak, and contemplated that this might differ in terms of liability compared to a case where there is clear negligence.

The focus then shifted to chickens, which was prompted by this paper in Journal of Food Safety. The rates of Campylobacter and Salmonella found on chickens purchased from farmer’s markets and supermarkets were similarly high. Don was also interested in a link shared by Andreas about raw chicken hand towel, especially because of the comments posted to it. To finish off the chicken theme the guys talked about a Salmonella Heidelberg outbreak linked to a single poultry producer. But the industry and USDA have been vewy, vewy quiet!

Ben’s watching The Newsroom again and in the after dark the guys were frustrated by their iTunes ratings and that Carl Winter and even a dog food safety podcast episode was rating higher. Ben also shared the sacrifices he has to make to get new hockey skates. The guys finished off with a trail mix inspired Best in Show, Family Tree, Launch Bar and Food Safety Talk shirts.

Food Safety Talk 44: Stool Sampling Tools

The show started with Mr. Roboto, Brazilian Cheese Bread, the upcoming IAFP’s annual meeting in Charlotte, and StoryCorps (not to be confused with Adventure Time). At the IAFP meeting Ben will be stuffing bags at the Food Lion and Don will try to control the unruly Dr. Harris at her first board meeting. The guys then celebrated Canada Day with some pop culture such as The Tragically Hip, Rheostatics and Frampton Comes Alive! (as featured on FST 1), and Reality Bites.

Ben and Don then turned their attention to Helicobacter pylori. Ben reported having had a belch inducing H. pylori infection, which was diagnosed by a breath test. It reminded Ben of Don’s asymptomatic H. pylori infection. Don wondered how Ben got exposed to H. pylori and whether it may have been foodborne, which Ben agreed was a possibility. In fact, Helicobacter pylori and Food Products indicates that the organism can also be widespread in some drinking water supplies. Don also noted an article on “Assessing the Risks and Benefits of Treating Helicobacter pylori Infection" which pointed at the possible commensal role of H. pylori.

The discussion moved from gastrointestinal microflora, to soil and water microflora and ecology and the impact of microflora on safety of the produce grown in different areas. This turned into a broader discussion of farming and extension and the need for multifunctional teams, such as NoroCore and STEC CAP.

In FST episode 43 the guys discussed the silliness of washing bananas, and Ben found yet another ridiculous article on the same topic. Don pointed out the lack of epidemiological evidence linking foodborne illness with bananas, though he recognized that “absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.” The earlier conversation about bananas prompted Don to post humorous photos of the individually wrapped bananas he found in the United Lounge at São Paulo airport.

Don then shared an email from listener ‘Deep South’ who was wondering where mechanically tenderized beef was being sold. An FMI survey of the membership indicated that none of the responding members sold this type of beef. So while it appears that the product is predominantly sold through food service, Ben noted the lack of epidemiological evidence connecting illness outbreaks with food service.

The guys then turned their attention to the Townsend Farm related Hepatitis A outbreak, which FDA has now linked to Pomegranate seeds. Ben applauded Bill Keene for focusing on employees first. Ben shared his thoughts about handling of pomegranate seeds and how they could become contaminated with Lynne Terry via Twitter. But are other producers learning from this and asking their suppliers the right questions?

In the after dark the guys discussed Ben’s tenure application. Good luck, Ben.

Food Safety Talk 43: I'm Sorry I Smeared Poo

Don is now a VIP in Brazil, at least as measured by Internet speed, while Ben was trying to get some grad students onto the interwebs. The guys then talked a bit about pop culture and follow up, including how John Oliver is stepping into 'The Daily Show’, Don’s TiVo usage, Adventure Time on Netflix and Poop and Produce. The guys felt a little challenged by their rapid recording schedule, having only recorded a show a few days ago, and syncing their notes for the show using Dropbox. Don shared his podcast equipment challenges and some of his São Paulo photos (such as this, this and this). Ben shared his own peaceful Sunday morning experiences and the awesome Australian Laborastory.

In the Bug Trivia segment the guys covered Trichinella spiralis. This little nematode is also known as the ‘pork worm’ though it is no longer commonly found in pork in developed countries. Ben likes this little critter and uses it to illustrate great public health communications that resulted in pork generally being cooked overly well. And Don was proud of the small role he played in getting the safe cooking temperature changed for chicken.

The guys then shifted from overcooked pork to undercooked beef burgers. Ben shared some of the work his summer students were doing on ordering burgers and the risk information that is provided by serving staff. Don described how he would calculate the risk of illness from consuming a burger that was cooked to 145°F (62.7°C), something that the inquisitive Marge Perry was interested in.

Ben noted that the USDA was going to implement a labeling rule for mechanically tenderized meat and the guys were happy to take the credit for this change. But they were the disappointed by other food safety failures going on around the country, such as the large outbreak related to Firefly restaurant. The guys seriously question the food safety practices at Firefly given the large number of foods associated with the outbreak. But applause went to the public health folks for being very quick in releasing the outbreak investigation reports.

Food Safety Talk 42: The Powerful Barbecue Lobby

Don rang in from São Paulo, Brazil, where he is spending some time thanks to a project funded by Scientists without Borders and managed by the Godfather (Godmother?) of the Brazilian Food Safety Mafia Bernadette Franco.  But podcasting away from home is proving to be more challenging that he had imagined, especially when he leaves his computer in his hotel room.  The guys announced the new “subscribe” feature on the Food Safety Talk website where listeners can subscribe to a email newsletter and share the show via various platforms. This prompted the guys to talk about their social media practices. iTunes ratings and sponsorship inquires are always welcome!

Ben the shared his recent trip to Nebraska for STEC CAP Grant meetings and his tornado experiences. This included a discussion of mechanically tenderized beef and how FSIS is poised to release a labeling rule for these products (similar to Canada’s labeling regime discussed in FST 41).  The guys discussed John Luchansky’s research and the actual versus theoretical risks of blade and needle tenderized beef.

In the Bug Trivia segment the guys talked about E. coli O157:H7. A 1994 outbreak linked to fermented dry salami resulted in research by the same Luchansky, then at Food Research Institute (FRI), to assess the effect of USDA Method No. 7 (not Mambo No 5) on food safety. Ben commented that he had just finished Jeff Benedict’s book Poisoned, which is about the 1993 Jack-in-the-Box E. coli O157:H7 outbreak and both Ben and Don agreed that this was an important and easy read for anyone working in the food industry.

The guys then talked about some other interesting food related books, including Cooked, Salt Sugar Fat and Catching Fire. Ben shared some information about relevant NC state regulations in relation to supplemental cooking rooms in North Carolina and Amazing Ribs got a special BBQ mention.

While still on the E. coli O157 and BBQ theme, the guys then turned their attention to an E. coli O157 outbreak related to Georgia BBQ Shack. While iced tea, which the CDC knew could have high levels of bacteria back in 1996, has been on Don’s radar since the IAFP 2011 symposium on the safety of fountain-dispensed beverages.

The guys then turned their attention to The Pueblo Chieftain article on clean, cook, and chill. The nonsense in this article made the guys so angry. Since when does washing bananas make a difference (unless you eat the peel) and whatever happened to cross-contamination and temperature control (think cantaloupes)? Don thought that one way of getting the message out was to present at conferences and publish in journals of organizations such as NEHA or NACCHO, or bring the environmental health folks to attend IAFP.

In the after dark the guys talked about TabLinks, Brazilian VISA requirements, Carol Wallace (of HACCP: A Practical Approach fame), Daft Punk (👍👍) and The National (👎).

Food Safety Talk 41: Always Looking Out for Nuts

Don shared that he’s been flogging the podcast mercilessly during his recent travels. The guys then launched straight into the Bug Trivia segment, highlighting Clostridium perfringens, which can be a big problem particularly for meat processors who need to cool large cuts of cooked meat quickly (to meet the FSIS performance standard). Carl Custer’s notes indicate that it was infamous for causing gas gangrene. During cooking of meat the spores germinate and these can grow incredibly fast if the rate of cooling is inadequate. Luckily it generally doesn’t cause death, but can cause a potentially fatal disease called pig-bel especially in countries where cooked meat is held at room temperature for long periods of time. Ben has developed some food safety infosheets for this organism, including this one detailing an outbreak linked to a school event.

The guys then turned their attention to baked goodies and that some things on the Internet are not true. Don referred to one of those typical urban legend emails warning people to discard their out-of-date pancake and cake mixes for risk of causing anaphylactic allergic reactions. Turns out that there is some truth to the matter as you can see from Snopes and this scientific article “An unusual case of anaphylaxis. Mold in pancake mix.” While there are some incorrect aspects to the story, Don would always advise people to not use food that has passed its best or sell by date because of the lower quality (the dates are there for a reason).

The conversation then turned to canning as Ben, the self-proclaimed Canning King of Wake County NC, recently received a question about canning mushrooms. While the email appeared to be about quality, Ben’s concern was Clostridium botulinum (see bug trivia in FST 39) and hence he elevated this email to an 11 on the 1 to 10 scale. So, Ben passed on information on canning mushrooms from the National Center for Home Food Preservation. Don was also dealing with canning questions and was worried about people fiddling with established jam recipes for fear of a repeat of what happened in Cowichan with watermelon jelly.

Ben then went on a Salmonella-fuelled hazelnut caper – he was grumpy about the lack of supplier information provided by the CFIA, although Lynne Terry from The Oregonian managed to find it out. Ben felt this information could be important to other distributers who would be able to make better decisions (provided they had the right food safety culture). Don noted that weenie public health folk, such as Dr. Eric Wilke, had Doug all fired up. Dr Wilke’s antics at the press conference turned serious foodborne illness outbreak into bizarre theater. Not cool, dude. The Salmonella outbreak from Fayetteville Hotelon the I-95 reminded Don of FST 11 and the guys discussed some of the ill-informed responses of public health officials after food borne illness outbreaks.

Don and Ben then turned their attention to needle tenderized beef, which was prompted by the MeatingPlace opinion about this Consumer Reports article. While James Marsden was against labeling of mechanically tenderized beef, Canada has already moved to such a labeling requirement, although Doug had some questions about it. Ben had managed to find some research on cooking inoculated and mechanically tenderized beef, although the debate about it is ongoing. Both Ben and Don would prefer to have this type of product clearly labeled, although their preference is for naturally tender and flavorsome beef cuts (such as MSA graded beef).

In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s upcoming trip to Brazil and Denmark, and Ben's trip to Nebraska.

Food Safety Talk 40: All in on Boogers

The guys started the show with some news and general chit chat, including hockey, an article about fighting bacteria with mucus, Linked In (perhaps the creepiest social network), Don’s Silver Beaver Award, surely a ’Major Award’, and the TV they are watching: Arrested Development, Adventure Time and Game of Thrones.

The new ‘Food is the New Rock’ podcast (suggested by fan of the show Brian Sauders - @BSauders) that provides a blend of food and music topics, reminded Ben of this Freganism barfblog article. Don then mentioned some interesting work of University of Iowa's Computational Epidemiology Group was working on, which was followed by a discussion about IAFP annual conference and IAFP PDGs.

The bug trivia segment focused on Staphylococcus aureus, which is ubiquitous in the human and animal buccal cavities. Staph produces a heat resistant enterotoxin in food, famous in part for causing the Chinese canned mushrooms outbreak. Don also noted that S. aureus poisoning was also known as Ptomaine poisoning.

The guys then talked about this SciLogs article by Matt Shipman (from Ben and Matt YouTube fame) and why people might not care about grants that have been awarded but are more interested in research outcomes.

The discussion then turned to the Salmonella Saintpaul cucumber outbreak and Ben was surprised by the lack of media coverage this outbreak created. Don noted that cucumbers generally had high microbial counts, as did other fresh produce such as tomatoes and lettuce, and he wondered why there hadn’t been more outbreaks to date. Ben was wondering whether contamination might be related to the water used in greenhouse production, which reminded Don of a recent article on bacteria in surface waters. Don pondered whether high relative humidity in greenhouses might be related to the transfer of pathogens.

The NSF’s article on the germiest kitchen items made Don and Ben so angry. They were flabbergasted by the lack of scientific rigor used in the work and in the reporting of it. The less-than-helpful food safety messages in the article reminded Don of Merlin Mann’s Old Butchers post, which mentions the ‘useful’ Lifehacker article on using soap to clean dishes.

The guys didn’t feel much better about the Consumer Reports article on ground turkey. They wondered about the low Campylobacter isolation rate and Don shared some concerns about the study that he had also discussed with Marge Perry. Ben and Don congratulated AMI on their spot on public response but they felt that the National Turkey Federation response lived up to its name.

In the after dark the guys talked about Dan Rockey’s research on Chlamydia and Don’s upcoming Brazil trip thanks to Scientists without Borders.

Food Safety Talk 39: Des Moines is Known for their Scallops

The guys start by answering a question from listener Tom (whom Ben met at the Consumer Federation of America National Food Policy conference) and his request for guidance on research areas in food safety. Don’s advice was that Tom should follow his passion and from there pick a university or faculty member. This then turned into a broader discussion about education, with a focus on distance and online learning.

Don then talked about his attendance at ISGP’s  Food Safety, Security, and Defense: Focus on Technologies and Innovations conference in Verona, Italy, which operates under the Chatham House Rules (not to be confused with the Cider House Rules). Don really enjoyed the discussions between the scientific experts and policy makers and he enjoyed meeting Lynn Frewer. Don also talked about his recent visit to GOJO with his student (and some times listener Dane Jensen) to discuss Dane’s PhD research.

In the Bug Trivia segment, Ben talked about Clostridium botulinum, the ‘sausage poisoning’ bug, and Ben’s recent Barfblog post on the topic. The guys thought that tin-foiled potatoes caused unnecessarily large concern because of one outbreak, as most botulism cases are linked to ineffective home canning practices. While Ben had trouble pronouncing nitrosamines, he challenged Andreas to find papers by Gibson and Roberts on Clostridium and cured meats. Andreas did not disappoint, finding Factors controlling the growth of Clostridium botulinum types A and B in pasteurized, cured meats parts I, II, III, IV, V, and VI.

The guys then talked about the Egg Rollie, as Aaron "you-SUE-ghee" wanted to know whether the cooked ‘egg rollie’ could be contaminated by raw egg as it rises. Ben wasn’t too concerned and Don pointed out that while there was a risk, the risks of illness from eating raw eggs were rather low.

The conversation then turned to the Listeria and cantaloupes, as FDA was planning to undertake a survey of Listeria monocytogenes in US cantaloupe packing houses. Ben has been organizing industry workshops with Chris Gunter (guest in FST episode 3) and some others. Ben explained what he would do if he was a producer and FDA were about to visit his packing house for sampling. Don agreed with Ben’s strategy and pointed out that baseline information on pathogen prevalence on produce was needed. However, the guys couldn’t understand why the samples were not also going to be tested for Salmonella, which had been involved in more cantaloupe related outbreaks than Listeria. In addition, Don wasn’t convinced that this survey was the best use of public funds. This reminded Don of a USA Today article on sequestration which included a Doug Powell quote, which Don also posted on his Tumblr.

Ben sent a shout out to Ashley Chaifetz, a PhD student studying public policy, who wrote a Barfblog post on Salmonella in dog food (and this follow up post) and how she now longer trusted the dog food manufacturer. Finally the guys sent a big thank you to the folks at SHS Design who updated their FST logo for iTunes.

In the after dark the guys talked about a couple of iTunes comments, their usual scheduling challenges, a potential guest, "Rappaz R.N. Dainja” and Science Online.

Food Safety Talk 38: Like an 80's Dating Show

Once again, Skype and Call Recorder weren’t playing nicely for Ben while Don felt a bit like Michael Douglas in the Wonder Boys. Don has been investigating Google Hangouts for running a online live show though Michelle Danyluk didn’t think they could do a live show at IAFP, unless maybe it was in the format of an 80’s dating show, like the one on Mallrats.

Ben had some follow up to his son, Jack, vomiting on a Delta plane reported in Episode 37 . While Ben initially thought the etiological agent was Astrovirus (which would make Jack ‘Astro Boy’) he wasn't sure after feeling the effects a week later. It even stopped Ben from fully enjoying the dinner he had at Fire with Michele.

Ben then had some follow up about the state ag-gag laws. The guys were concerned about the protective approach instead of being open and transparent. The latter would also help the agriculture industry to create a greater understanding of food production. And sometimes an exposé (or Exposé) can change things for the better.

In the new Bug Trivia segment, Don shared some information about Salmonella pulled together by Carl Custer. It turns out that Salmonella was named after a guy who didn’t discover it and after a disease that it didn’t cause – go figure.

The discussion then turned to a Cryptosporidia-related outbreak in Bendigo, Australia. Ben felt that the public health messages in the article were conflicting (and incorrect). The guys disagreed with the advice that hand hygiene was important (in this instance) and were more inclined to believe that it was transmitted through swimming pools. In fact, crypto is a hardly little parasite for which alcohol based sanitizers and even chlorine aren’t effective.

This reminded Don of a recent hepatitis A scare and an article that was published in the journal of Food Protection entitled “Cost Effectiveness of Vaccinating Food Service Workers against Hepatitis A Infection” which concluded a public health benefit to hospitality workers, but not patrons. This prompted a broader discussion about Hep A infected restaurant staff.

The guys then turned from pastry chefs in restaurants to pastry in Greek university canteens. The guys were concerned about the results, though Don’s work on ready-to-eat foods in university canteens shows much, much lower levels. Well, maybe the staff in the Greek university canteens didn’t have time for training, just like the business that took part in a study by Campden BRI, which indicated that food safety training was hampered by lack of time. However, Don and Ben were skeptical about “43% [who] said food safety training was obstructed by the difficulties of checking the effectiveness of training programmes.”

Ben then steered to conversation to writing journal articles and Don’s use of contour plots – he clearly is The Boss. Don’s contour plot shows the log increases in Listeria organisms given time and temperature, from which suitable consumer messages can be created.

Before signing off, the guys then briefly talked about Doug Powell being fired from Kansas State for bad attendance and Don expressed his gratitude for all of Doug’s work, which helped him enormously over the years. And it looks like Doug’s keen to come on the podcast … so stay tuned.

In the after dark, the guys talked about toilet paper dispensers for campers, though Ben’s missing the iPhone holder, and the Apple remote.​

Food Safety Talk 37: Inoculating the Plane

The guys started with some follow up on The Wire, The Newsroom, what colored food does to your poop, Mike Batz’ link to Craig Goldwyn’s Huffington Post article on sprouts, T. gondii in Romanian animals, and F’ed up.

Aaron’s email then prompted a discussion about Plague Inc., the CDC’s interest in it and CDC’s own game Solve the Outbreak. The guys were impressed by how progressive the CDC is in terms of social media and new ways of engaging the public.

Don then provided some info about HDScores, a company that plans to make Restaurant Inspection Scores from 3100 jurisdictions from the US, Canada and UK widely available. This prompted a discussion about making restaurant scores available to the public in an interpretable way.

Ben shared his experiences from a recent trip to Calgary, where his 4 year old son Jack got sick, possibly with Norovirus. Ben was fascinated by Delta Airlines’ approach of dealing with the vomit problem, which involved plastic bags to contain the risk and coffee pods to manage the smell. Don was familiar with the approach thanks to Roderick on the Line. Ben didn’t agree with Delta’s decision to take them off plane first (thus inoculating the plane).  It reminded him of two different articles. Both Don and Ben were glad Delta had a plan, even if they didn’t quite agree with the whole plan.

Don then wanted to ask Ben about a Meatingplace article by Richard Raymond entitled Is our food safer than five years ago? (free registration needed to read). Ben explained why he didn’t agree with Richard’s arguments. Don agreed and asked aloud about conspiracy theories, not dissimilar from those surrounding New Coke.

Don then wanted get Ben’s take on the IFT’s March 2013 media update. In fact both Ben and Don thought that these updates were way over the top and it reminded them of "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons” and Doug Powell’s comment on Barfblog “I'm immediately suspicious of people … who say trust me.” Ben especially didn’t like that organizations say “trust us” and without telling people what the risks are and why they should be trusted. The discussion of food processing reminded Don of Richard Wrangham’s great book "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human.”

The last thing on Ben’s agenda was Doug’s comparison between the porn industry and the food industry, which had resulted in a fair bit of backlash against the legendary Doug. Ben noted that Doug’s point was how the two industries differed in how they manage the risks, which people missed. And boy… you mention porn and people get excited.

Food Safety Talk 36: Better Collaboration Without Pants

After some initial expected Skype problems the guys talked about a range of topics including their favorite beers, Apple phobias, The Wire, about (not) working from home and Telecommuting policies, writing papers using DragonDictate, Don’s Squarespace 6 trial and Ben’s The Newsroom sharing system.

The guys then critiqued some obfuscated food safety messages about Listeria put out by the Partnership for Food Safety Education. The discussion then turned to the horse meat scandal and that audits are a tool rather than the tool. This reminded Don of the Chinese melamine incident and labeling fraud.

The guys then took a short podcasting detour to Scott Simpson’s Your Monkey Called article for The Magazine entitled You’re boring. It made them think about the stories they are trying to tell in podcast episodes, blog articles or presentations.

This reminded Ben of the story of Ashley’s  lack of emotion to a Norovirus outbreak on UNC campus, but we don’t know how she would react to Carolyn Dunn’s story on Food Myths and Memes of no baby carrots. This turned into a chat about kale, Brussels sprouts, beets, asparagus and bodily functions.

Ben then shared his surprise of reading about accelerated aging canned food, which prompted Don to think about a couple of early food science books – Ted Labuza’s “Shelf-Life Dating of Foods” and Harold McGee’s “Curious Cook.” Though Don wasn’t too keen on the idea of aging canned food.

The guys then wondered about how a Michigan firm could be operating without a HACCP plan and the subsequent recall. Don then got grumpy about Candy eggs that have all been cleared of Salmonella. Then Ben got on his favorite soap box about the lack of information that is being provided.

In the after dark the guys talked about Mobee Magic Charger, HyperJuice 2 external batteries, Don’s ski hat and Ben's toque ,and Ben’s fantasy baseball.​

Food Safety Talk 35: The Abuelas of Social Media

Don was excited about his new “Dan Benjamin approved” microphone and headphones and Ben was excited about Folding Text. After emailing with Marco, from the Neutral podcast, Don is planning on moving Food Safety Talk to Squarespace 6, which should allow them to get better download tracking information. Don and Ben also sent shout-outs to David Tharp (IAFP), Ian Jenson (Meat and Livestock Australia) and Renee Boyer’s Food Safety class.

The discussion then returned to the reusable bag discussion (see FST 34), which was prompted by Tomas Aragon who shared his memo about the “Clickety-Clack” paper. In the memo Thomas pointed out that Klick and Wright had used the ICD-10 codes, for which there were 140 deaths during 2000-2010. However, 111 of these were due to Enterocolitis due to Clostridium difficile, leaving only 29 related to other intestinal infectious diseases.

The guys took a quick pop culture detour to iTunes Match which had allowed Ben to rediscover Rancid. Don’s been listening to R. L. Burnside (not R. L. Stine), Bite Harder: The Music De Wolfe Studio Sampler, Vol. 2 and Holy F*ck.

On return to food safety they guys discussed an article on Farmers Markets and FSMA and in particular the quote from Kate Flannery. Ben disagreed with Kate’s implication that greenhouse farming was without risks. Don agreed that the risks were different rather than non-existent.

The guys then turned to the horse meat scandal in the UK, which is even reverberating through the popular culture twittersphere. Ben challenged Prof. Hugh Pennington’s comments that horse meat was safer than beef, as surely the denominator matters!

The discussion then turned to barbeque and roadkill. While you’ll find some vaguely disturbing erotic images you probably won’t find a road kill recipe on the Amazing Ribs website. Ben did discuss the safety of eating road kill in this barfblog article. Road kill is apparently making a resurgence with those who are struggling with food security (i.e. having enough food to eat). Don has worked with Debra Palmer Keenan to help people make better choices in relation to food safety when they have to compromise on the foods they buy.

Don had some more follow up from FST 34 in relation to washing coffee mugs. He found some silly advice in this Huffington Post article and he expressed his disgust with this Mamapedia article. This got Ben excited as his grad student, Ben, is working on how to engage people in food safety via social media. Ben’s research will focus on mommy blogs (but probably not Dani’s 2 Little Supeheroes blog or Portlandia's Parenting tips over the coming months.

The discussion then turned to Doug’s poop cruise article and that someone sold a bio poop bag on Ebay for $15. Another Barfblog article reported on the closure of Union University in Jackson, Tennessee, due to norovirus and Don contemplated the irony of this happening at North Carolina State University, the home of the NoroCORE project.

In the after dark the guys talked about beverages, iTunes Match and MobileMe, and Ben had some questions about establishing variances to food safety standards.

Food Safety Talk 34: Don't puke up the doughnuts

Participating in the Krispy Kreme Challenge challenged Ben in more ways than one. Don is looking for a new podcasting mic and he is getting some guidance from Dan Benjamin’s guide. The guys discussed the download statistics for the podcast and Folding Text to manage their pre-show notes, as well as Don’s homework, The Newsroom (Canadian TV series), which prompted Don to correctly note the excessive plaid fashions. Bill Hallman had provided some further thoughts on the “no illness language” in recall notices (FST Episode 33) which led to a broader discussion about recalls, including one for Listeria in Crab Dip.

The discussion continued with Listeria, namely Missa Bay LLC's recall due to Listeria in apple slices  and the more recent FDA warning letter to the company. Don and Ben were surprised by where and how much Listeria was found by the FDA. The guys agreed that the publication of these warning letters was a good thing – not only for customers, but also to provide valuable information to suppliers of similar products – which reminded Ben of the Blue Pages for teachers.

The guys then switched to the Chicago Tribune article “Triclosan: Anti-bacterial soaps called useless, potentially dangerous” that Don had been interviewed for (based on his publication “A Meta-Analysis of the Published Literature on the Effectiveness of Antimicrobial Soaps.”) The average benefit of antimicrobial soaps over normal soaps was about 0.5 log, or 63%, and Don explained that the benefits were greatest when the contamination levels of hands were high, for example after handling raw meat and poultry or after cleaning up vomit.

Then Ben and Don got back into the reusable bag discussion. This was prompted by an article by Klick and Wright (not Watson and Crick). Klick and Wright combined Gerba, Williams and Sinclair’s research on bacteria in reusable shopping bags with a pathogenic E. coli related illnesses and deaths in hospital in the San Francisco area. They concluded that the ban on grocery bags led to an increase of 5.4 additional deaths per year, though Ben got really fired up on Barfblog about the lack of epidemiology and microbiology evident in the article. Don also took issue with a couple of lawyers mistaking correlation with causation and recalled FST Episode 19 where the guys had discussed reusable bags, which Carl Custer likes to call nickel bags (or check out this link).

Ben then shared that that his department was advertising a local food extension / research position to collect evidence for a range of possible impacts of local food systems, including food safety, nutrition, or related areas. This led to a discussion about local food systems and Don was all in favor of fresh food, such as the locally source food available at Wegmans.

In the after dark the guys geeked out with Folding Text, Markdown and its syntax, the octothorpe (not to be confused with Dr. Octavius from Spider-Man 2), Ben’s Garage Band workflow, Apple messages for the Mac, and Ken Finkleman.

Food Safety Talk 34: Don't Puke Up the Doughnuts

Food Safety Talk 33: Fresh Produce Punk Rock Hippieness

Don starts by battling Skype again while Ben gets organized. The guys shared their favorite Starbucks coffee orders, which Don takes to go in his Marco-approved ™ Contigo travel mug. While these mugs can be challenging to wash, the guys agreed that washing them (or other dishes) in the bathroom was never a good idea. Even John Gruber knows that storing dishes in the bathroom is a bad idea, as he pointed out in a recent episode of The Talk Show. Ben then went into a coffee-fuelled rant about Getting Things Done, his favorite Canadian TV series ‘The Newsroom’, The Lumineers, Bad Religion and The Wire’s Stringer Bell. Don countered with Fat Boy Slim, the Luther, Bramwell, Ripper Street, and Transmetropolitan.

After a shout-out to Renee Boyer’s Food Safety class at Virginia Tech they talked about listener Bridgette’s link to “Dear Abby - Changing baby on eatery table takes the cake” and her comment that perhaps that common sense isn’t that common at all.

Next on the agenda was a discussion of the recent CDC report on foodborne disease attribution and how fresh produce is associated with greatest amount of foodborne illness, while poultry is linked to the greatest number of deaths. Don explained how the MDP’s retail sampling results match up reasonably well with actual illness estimates, according to his crude risk assessment. Ben was looking for information on what people could do to reduce the risks, as Don recently shared on WebMD. Ben was also surprise by the amount of deaths associated with norovirus (shown in the Technical Appendix 1 of the CDC report), the majority of which are associated with nursing homes. As the guys dug deeper into the results they unearthed more questions than answers and they cautioned against blindly trusting data.  As Don learned from reading Chumbawuba liner notes.

Ben and Don then discussed the recent Food Safety News article “Does The “No Illnesses” Language Belong in Recall Notices?” and whether the wording impacts on how consumers react.

The focus then turned to the FSIS “Let's Talk Chicken” podcast. The guys found the scripted nature very difficult to connect with. Instead they found CDC’s approach in “Preparedness 101: Zombie Apocalypse” much more engaging. Don felt that passion was important in podcasting and cited the Obsession times Voice talk by Merlin Mann and John Gruber at SXSW.  Don also noted that he listens to Neutral, and his new favorite podcast, for the voice, and not the content.

In the after dark the guys chatted about using American Apparel for making T-shirts, creating Food Safety Talk Decals, iPads, Ben’s hockey obsession and 2 Little Superheroes.

Food Safety Talk 33: Fresh Produce and Punk Rock Hippieness

Food Safety Talk 32: Zombies and (Bleep)

This week the guys talked to Andreas Kiermeier (who’s been doing a yeoman’s job the show notes, i.e. the words you are reading right now).  Andreas works at the South Australian Research and Development Institute (SARDI), not be confused with Sardi's in New York City.  Andreas is into trance music, which led to a discussion of John Lennon, Portishead and Tangerine dream.  Andreas is a photographer, as shown on Flickr.  He’s the official photographer of the Adelaide Zombie Walk, which is similar to the Zombie Run in Raleigh. Andreas has published an article on the microbiology of kangaroo meat, co-authored with John Sumner of Risk Ranger fame.

The discussion then turned to the risks of using Bakelite and raw milk for making double cream; expiration dates, shelf-life and Listeria; and public libraries which Ben loves, for many reasons, among them, creating this picture. Don and Ben then dissected An In-Depth Analysis of a Piece of Shit: Distribution of Schistosoma mansoni and Hookworm Eggs in Human Stool - thanks to Chip Manuel (SeeManual) on Twitter for finding that gem!  This was followed by a brief discussion of the two recently FSMA rules on Preventive Controls and Produce, and the relationship between organic food and autism.  The show finished off with a discussion of XL foods inspections and a call back to Food Safety Talk Episode 1, and the NAS report on releasing FSIS inspected establishment data.

The after dark featured a discussion of the IAFP Annual Meeting, Crashplan - the cause of Andreas’s bad Skype connection, and Daniel Shannon (phyllisstein) on Twitter.

Food Safety Talk 32: Zombies and (bleep)